Help! Completely stumped on fuel or ignition problem

[kwai]

All newer coils have the ballast resistor built in and are taller than the original coils that had a separate ballast resistor. The only ballast resistor that I have seen was about 3/8" thick.

[rboltz]

After all you have already done, I would swap another coil in.

Many of us have had problems with the China chrome coils. Either die soon after installing, quit when hot or won't work at speed.

[Don Cavey]

All newer coils have the ballast resistor built in and are taller than the original coils that had a separate ballast resistor. The only ballast resistor that I have seen was about 3/8" thick.

OK. Today, I got the NOS ignitor down from the shelf as promised. The coil inside is ~ 3 inches tall. The "hole" in the ignitor housing is ~ 3 inches deep. So, no way that a coil with a built in ballast will fit into the ignitor with the resistor under it.

Now I will have to check the ignitor in my truck. I won't be satisfied until I am sure the right coil is in there. Too much voltage will cause issues as well. I wonder if the Chinese coils would be OK with a ballast resistor? (I still don't want another one!!!)

[Don Cavey]

Many of us have had problems with the China chrome coils. Either die soon after installing, quit when hot or won't work at speed.

What he said. I have been down that exact road myself...

[KansasM715]

I have not noticed one and it appears the energizing wire from the ignition just comes straight in the side to the coil. I ordered the distributor kit (cap,rotor, points, and condenser) and a new coil from Boyce this morning. I plan to pull the distributor to make sure I get the point gap perfect and check out the bushings.

Thanks

[Don Cavey]

I have not noticed one and it appears the energizing wire from the ignition just comes straight in the side to the coil. I ordered the distributor kit (cap,rotor, points, and condenser) and a new coil from Boyce this morning. I plan to pull the distributor to make sure I get the point gap perfect and check out the bushings.

Thanks

When you say a new coil, do you know if it is an NOS military coil of a new production coil? Seems that we are having problems with the chrome plated coils that are most likely from China.

[Duane]

running a ballast resistor (ignitor) with a coil already having one internal will be more of a problem than running a coil without one and having full voltage, it would run fine, and than begin to overheat eventually. I think you are going tosolve the problem with the parts, I would change the points and condensor then the coil to islolate what fixed it. keep us posted

Duane

[Don Cavey]

running a ballast resistor (ignitor) with a coil already having one internal will be more of a problem than running a coil without one and having full voltage, it would run fine, and than begin to overheat eventually. I think you are going tosolve the problem with the parts, I would change the points and condensor then the coil to islolate what fixed it. keep us posted

Duane

This is true. However, there is no room inside of the ignitor for a ballast resistor in the bottom and a coil with a built in ballast resistor because the new coil (with built in resistor) completely fills the housing. So, it might not be possible to do that. You are right, "new" condensers can be bad. Most were replaced over the years just as a matter of course.

And as Duane says, "Keep us posted".

[KansasM715]

Well, some of the advice in this thread was right on for the problem, and all the other advice involved really good things to check out. I have described all I did to give you the investigative process and then what finally fixed it.

First, I pulled the ignitor to work on it on the bench. I found that while I thought I had the points full open when I set the gap in the truck, I didn't. My actual gap was .030 instead of .020, so I was able to get the points actually full open when I put had it out on the bench. And for good measure, I put in a new china coil (I dug out the original one, and it was also a China replacement chrome coil, the one in it I originally replaced was a dull finish, not black, but not chrome).

I fired it up and it ran good for just about 30 seconds and then returned to it's former ways.

Sooo, I then pulled the fuel line at the carburetor and stuck it in a pop bottle with the inlet to the pump plumbed into a gas can bungecorded down on the inner fender. It filled half of the 20 oz pop bottle in about 15 seconds of cranking, so I put the line back on the carb and it maintained it a half full, but still wouldnt' rap up very good.

Back out came the ignitor and I then closely examined the points, they were fried from only about 20 minutes of running. This indicates condenser problems as I understand it, because the purpose of a condenser is to take the voltage spike when the points initially open to prevent arcing across the points. I had put brand new points and condenser in along with the coil when I fried everything leaving the switch on. I also replaced the rotor and cap. I replaced everything, got the points adjusted, put it back in where I had it timed before, and she fired up and ran good. I could rap it right up.

So, evidently it was the condenser even though I put it in brand new with everything else. I also had the points off because they weren't all the way open when I set them.

Now, I did mess one thing up. when replacing everything I pulled the wires off of the rotor cover so I could make sure the new cap and rotor fit just right. After I put everything on I noticed that the threads for a couple of the plug wire attaching points on the ignitor cover were bent, so I used a needlenose to straighten them out. I heard a crack on one and I had cracked the nipple inside on the cap, but the wire fit so I went ahead and installed and fired it up. I now have a steady miss at speed and a skipping idle so I think that cylinder is now shorting across within the cap, so will switch back to the old cap and see if that fixes it.

Having the fuel tank out was not really a waste of time. It was starting to rust on top so I wire brushed it and used some undercoating to get that stopped. I also really cleaned up my ground for my fuel gauge, which always read full and inspected the inside of the tank. I put in fuel and poured it out and saw no goobers to indicate a crud problem. I will get it back in and see how things go.

[Don Cavey]

Well, some of the advice in this thread was right on for the problem...

...

Back out came the ignitor and I then closely examined the points, they were fried from only about 20 minutes of running. This indicates condenser problems as I understand it, because the purpose of a condenser is to take the voltage spike when the points initially open to prevent arcing across the points.

...

That is correct. So, if you pull out points from any Kettering type of ignition system (breaker points and condenser) and the points are in good condition and not a lot of metal transfer from one contact to the other, the condenser is actually in good condition. Most likely, more good ones hit the scrap bucket than ones that are bad.

So, if you are doing a tune up and find the points in relatively good condition, it would be advisable to save that condenser. It is most likely good.


BTW the original coil was a dull silver kinda color. If you still have that dull one, it could be an original military type. Might be much better than those chrome China coils. I mentioned in another thread that I checked both of my ignitors. The NOS one that I have has no ballast. And, the coil is three inches long from the mounting tang to the bottom. The well in the ignitor is three inches deep. So, a newer coil with a built in ballast will not fit if you try to put a ballast in the well. Maybe these Chinese coils are made for a ballast??? I threw mine away a few years ago so I can't check.

Just a thought...