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Thread: grantshire : My Game Plan - Comments welcomed

  1. #1

    Default grantshire : My Game Plan - Comments welcomed

    My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by grantshire on Jun 19, 2006, 9:25am

    Well I am finally back in the office so I can post a little more information on where I am headed. I appreciate the responses I got on "What Axles" last week. All of those posts were via my Treo phone from my car as I crossed several states.

    As stated in my introduction post I am building my M715 to be a tow vehicle for my twin axle car/Jeep carrier. It will see limited off-road use, mainly winter snow/mud when hunting and perhaps some beach time. After reading as much as I can about the stock setup I have come up withe the following game plan. Many of you have been down this road so you comments, recommendations and experiences are welcomed.

    Engine: V8, probably either a SBS 350 or maybe even a Caddy 500

    Tranny: TH400 auto, probably divorced

    TC: Leaning toward a divorced NP205

    Axles: SOA w/open GM Dana 60 front/14 bolt rear w/locker

    Gear ratio: 4.10's

    Tires: 38-40x12.50's on aftermarket rims

    Steering: AGR Superbox II power steering

    Brakes: Front disc, rear drum or disc, Vanco power brake booster

    Top: Soft top

    Interior: FSJ tilt wheel, aftermarket gages, tan TJ bucket seats with console, FSJ under dash AC

    Color: Pure white w/ black linex bed & cab floor, black roll bar and undercoating

    It will be about 10 days before I pick up my 715 so I have time to make any adjustments needed. I want to be able to run 70 mph on the highway without spinning the too high. If I could justify an OD automatic I would go with CUCV axles with 4.56 gears. I just don't think its worth the expense.

    What do you guys think about "The Plan"?

  2. #2

    Default elwenil :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by elwenil on Jun 19, 2006, 9:56am

    Sounds good, but if you can go with a mated transfer case, you might as well. There's really no need in keeping it divorced in your case and having a mated case would eliminate two u-joints from the system. Other than that little bit and the fact that I personally think all military vehicles should be painted as such (personal preference, lol) it sounds like a good solid plan.

  3. #3

    Default tacomainoh :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by tacomainoh on Jun 19, 2006, 10:24am

    A divorced TH400??? what the.... heheheheh

    I dig the plan. I would also recommend going with a married case if you can, but I will also argue strongly for the divorced option: it's easy to install, you can swap trannies easier, and a 2wd TH400 is a hell of a lot cheaper than the 4wd version.

    Ask yourself if a springover is necessary: adds a lot of lift, and that needs to be dealt with. You can clear 38's at stock height.

    Reconsider the AGR box, unless you've got the cash to swing it. You are mostly paying for the fancy CNC end cap. I would definitely go with a Hydroboost setup for a tow rig like that. Vanco can set you up... or you can hit the yards for the parts.

    The rear will need to be converted to disc... Using a standard truck 14bolt, I had maybe 1/4" of clearance betweent the spring and the drum. The good part is that DIY4x4 sells a cheap, clockable bracket set and the whole swap will cost you maybe $200. Just make sure you calibrate it properly so you're not locking up the rears all day LOL

    careful with a locker in a tow rig. Consider an ARB if you can swing it.... the standard 14bolt Detroit is a little... rough for towing big trailers hahah

    as to OD automatics: I love them! but yes, one ton and up stuff gets you into the 4L80E, and that's pricey.

    Carry on, sir! and post pics.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Atlanta, Ga.
    Posts
    369

    Default bluesman2a :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by bluesman2a on Jun 19, 2006, 12:06pm

    Engine: A 350 would work, but for towing, a stroker, small block 400 or BBC might be a better choice for the torque.

    Tranny: TH400 works well, as others have said considered a married option would be easier.

    TC: 205 works well, but keep an eye on Stak 4x4 they have an OD Xfer that will work well on tow rigs and still has a 4.33 final reduction ratio. It'll be pricey, but an OD would be the nuts with a TH400.

    Axles: Also would recommend that you reconsider SOA. Here is my truck with those axles SUA on 38.5 tires (plenty of room):

    Other axle pics:
    http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/vie...lbumName=Axles
    Gear ratio: 4.56's come standard in those axles, consider the stock before you spend the money on swapping. I think with a TH400 you will find them adequate.

    Tires: Consider the Michelin XL or XZL in 11X16, it's a 38.7" tire look great on our trucks, balance VERY well, and can be had cheaply. I wish this had been my 1st choice...

    Steering: AGR sucks... PSC is better. Both myself and elohim1 have done this swap with boxes pre-drilled for hydro-assist. Here are some pics of my setup:
    http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/vie...umName=album31

    Brakes: Why not just go all wheel disc? It's super simple and only costs in the $150 range with all new parts.

    Top: New Life Resources. Get the M-37 style so you an roll up the rear window. Also get the blackout curtain. Be prepared to wait.

    Interior: FSJ tilt wheel, aftermarket gauges, tan TJ bucket seats with console, FSJ under dash AC. Yep. I can vouch that all that works except the AC (don't know):



    Color: Sorry, I'm all about the OD...

  5. #5

    Default elwenil :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by elwenil on Jun 19, 2006, 12:38pm

    If you use the 14 bolt from a CUCV or similar civilian GM truck, you have to swap to rear disc brakes or move the springs and mounts since the drums will hit the springs in their stock location. I second the XLs, but I wouldn't say they can be had cheaply. $700 for 4 used tires is about what they are going for on Ebay. I lucked out and got 6 for $400, but that was a great deal at the time. You can get them at auction, but they normally are mounted on the LAV rims and that takes a bit of work to dismount them and then you have to make sure you get a full set of 4 good used tires. I do think XLs are the best option out there for tires since they are an actual heavy duty radial and not the poor quality junk (like Interco) that you normally find in those sizes.

    I'm not sure I would go for the expense of the Stak transfer case. It's still a fairly new piece and I'd be concerned about using it for long term, high RPM use at highway speeds. A NP205 is much cheaper, easier to obtain, and you cen get parts for it anywhere. Just my .02

  6. #6

    Default grantshire :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by grantshire on Jun 19, 2006, 1:35pm

    Some further explanation...

    I have a ton of FSJ and other parts from my other Jeep projects. Where possible I plan to use them and keep the project cost down. These "extra" parts include FSJ tilt auto column, AGR Super Box II, TJ seats, and FSJ AC unit. I also have but decided not to use: AMC engines (I have running 258 and 360 engines), SM465/NP 205 combo (really would like to have used this but I need the automatic so wife can pull horse trailer), AMC TH400's (all QT or Dana 20 TC units), stock axles, stock divorced TC.

    The SOA axle idea also included removing a leaf or two to bring it back down some and soften the ride a bit.

    I don't have the engine yet so I may move up to the big block or the 500 Caddy. I would have liked to use one of my AMC 360's but I don't know if they have enough "umph" for a tow rig.

    The "divorced TH400" idea was to use a 2WD TH400 because I can get these cheap. Also, I would not have to fab a new crossmember or move the old one (not sure what is invloved).

    The 4.10 gearing selection is based on two things. First, by my calculations engine RPM's at 70 mph with a non OD tranny, 38" tires and 4.56 (CUCV axles) is over 2800 (even higher with an automatic). Going with 4.10 gears brings it down to just over 2500. Secondly, 4.10 is a common axle ratio found in civilian Dana 60's and 14 bolt axles.

    Bluesman2a, thanks for the pictures. Your truck looks great! My choice of SOA is as much for ride as it is for lift. The only way to soften a really stiff spring pack ride is to remove some leaves to flatten out the springs. I did this 20 years ago with my 61 Willys PU and it rode great.

    Keep the comments coming! I need to fine tune the plan before I start the project. If I had done a better job of "fine tuning" some of my other projects I would not have all these extra parts lying around! Anyone interested in trading a good Dana 60 front axle or 14 bolt rear for a SM465/NP205 setup?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    1,652

    Default fisherman :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by fisherman on Jun 19, 2006, 6:35pm

    You may want to rethink the Caddy 500 swap. A new member I've talked with got it to fit with only 1/2 inch clearance between the oil pan and tie rod. He is now doing a spring over. Maybe hell chime in. I believe his username is Saxon. Good Luck Fisherman

  8. #8

    Default saxon :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by saxon on Jun 19, 2006, 9:16pm

    Grantshire, I wished I'd of pre thought my project more, I'm the guy that is installing the cad 500, I'm having a clearance problem because I,m running a stick with the long bellhousing, the buick moter is 3 inches shorter than the cad so I am indeed having a little problem with clearance between front of pan and stock tie rod. BUT, you're wanting to run an auto, run a cad if you want,Ithink it's a good idea, gobs of torque,only 40 lbs more than sbc, run the eng back as far as possible, run gearvendors behind div. 205 and run 456's, the rear diff will spin up but everything else will run easy,but remember caddys have 400+ ft lbs, don't need the deep gearing, I think though the turbo 400 dos'nt have a very low 1st, I'm pulling a 26' x-navy whaleboat . saxon

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Northern Colorado
    Posts
    324

    Default fsjguy :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by fsjguy on Jun 19, 2006, 11:53pm

    FSJ AC will work. It will be tilted slightly UP towards you, but not too bad.

  10. #10

    Default tacomainoh :

    Re: My Game Plan - Comments welcomed
    Post by tacomainoh on Jun 20, 2006, 11:56am

    If you find someone who will trade a 60/14bolt for a 465/205, please call me ! hehe

    2wd 400 is a great idea, if you've got a divorced t-case. 4:10's are a great ratio... with a 350 you may be dogging it a bit getting going but that's alright.

    Ethan: why is your AC tilted up??? I just went out and mocked up the vents and mine fit just like a stock FSJ... wussup with your truck? hehe

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