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Thread: Water Pump Bully

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    N. Liberty Iowa- 41deg 44' 48" N, 91deg 36' 36.4" W
    Posts
    60

    Default Water Pump Bully

    I have the original tornado in my M-715, and it has a bad water pump. So being the ornery bugger that I am I have decided to rebuild it knowing full well this is advertised to be difficult. I haven't managed to disassemble it yet though. You might be interested to know one of my philosophies in life is that brute force is the answer to most if not all of life's problems. So I happen to have invested in a 12 ton rated hydraulic gear puller. I snapped that puppy on the pulley and started cranking away. About the time I thought "gee, that thin cast iron web on the bottom of the pulley probably isn't going to take much more...naw one more..." Crunch, so 4 v pulley now going to be a 3 v pulley. Then I happen to figure out that the protrusion on the end of the pulley isn't the end of the shaft but part of the pulley. Yeh, yeh, act first think later isn't as recommended as think then do. So looking the thing over I finally noticed that the hole in the end of the pulley was threaded and looks to give access to the shaft. So I invested in a good ol' grade 8 and attempted to use the bolt to jack the pulley off the shaft. This time when the "gee, I bet this thing is about to break" thought happened, I stopped. Next I dropped a 1/4" rod through the tap drill hole and went back at it with the gear puller. This time I braced the claws against one of the much beefier middle grooves, And lashed them in place with a chain wrench. But some were before the gear puller achieved its advertised 24,000 lbs of thrust the cute little rod I was using started turning into a rivet. So I stopped while I could still get it out of the hole. I switched gears a bit here. I clamped onto the "square" extension on the end of the pulley in a post vice. Next I got hold of the impeller with the chain wrench and tried to give a twist. It moved, I was thrilled. My hope being that if I could free one end of the shaft or the other it would simply slide free of the housing. Any way twisting the impeller about on the shaft while applying some leverage I did get the impeller off with out any fuss. But some thing is still restraining the shaft from just sliding out of the pump housing. I did try a little nudge with the gear puller, but when the case started to flex I quit. On to my worst, I decided that the rod through the hole to the shaft was a good idea. So recreated the set up using a 1/4" spring steel rod and started cranking away. I'm a machinist and I can recreate the pulley if I destroy it. True it would not be 100% stock but it would be fully functional. Any way cranking away with out abandon on this gear puller. Getting a lot closer to that 12 ton out put and I noticed that man I'm squashing the spring steel rod too. Wait I can get just a little nastier yet. Heat can break down rust maybe expand the pulley a little (the shaft also but hey worth a try right?) Yes I went at the pulley with an oxy-propane cutting torch, only heating no cutting. One enough heat had transferred through out that the entire pump was smoking I decided to back off before I would melt the cast aluminum case. Any one have some advice for me. An exploded view of the thing would be great. The only advice I find is so and so will do it for me for xxx$. I'm very determined to rebuild this thing for my self for that ego boosting "feeling of accomplishment".

  2. #2

    Default

    I commend you for actually trying this yourself. Between me and a few of my friends, we have several waterpumps at our disposal and are planning on getting together soon for a brainstorming session on seeing what we can do to effectively remove the pulley.

    Yes, it is true, there is somebody on this board that will rebuild it for you for a price. He has chosen to not share his knowledge of how he removes the pulley. Lets not discuss that, PLEASE, don't anybody go there. I don't care why or what or whatever for his decision. There has been ample discussion regarding this before, and everytime I see the word "waterpump" in a thread I fear we will go down that path again.

    Okay, now that that is outta the way, lets discuss some more constructive topics. I think you are going down the right path, that is to say what you are doing is what I was thinking about trying to do to my water pumps. Only thing I could add is to heat up the pulley while pressure is applied, then try to "tap" either the pulley or the shaft. In my experience this has sent vibrations through the items and I have had good luck removing stuck pulleys and gears.

    I'm not sure on the exploded diagram. There was a picture of a waterpump without a pulley on it on Ebay a while back. Maybe somebody saved that picture.

    Good luck and keep on trying. It sounds like you are oh so near.
    68 M-715
    67 M-725

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin
    Posts
    11,520

    Default

    One thing that intrigues me that I havent heard tried is:

    Get the pulley hot...real hot like you did without damaging anything.....then submerse it in ice water quickly and see if the rapid expansion/contraction makes a difference...seems is something is sticking in there, such a hot/cold changewould "pop" that stick....


    I could be wrong...but I have been wanting to try that.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    N. Liberty Iowa- 41deg 44' 48" N, 91deg 36' 36.4" W
    Posts
    60

    Default

    Though long winded I wasn't 100% in my details, I already tried tapping the pulley while I had the pressure on. Thanks,
    I've been contemplating just destroying the pulley in the attempt to get this thing apart planning on having to make the replacement. When I get this thing apart I plan on taking lots of pics.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Springdale, Arkansas
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    If you can afford to replace it, I'd try using an angle grinder with a super thin blade, "slice" the shaft pulley junction lengthwise, bisecting the shaft and pulley both.
    That would allow you to disect the pieces for examination. It wouldn't matter if it was threaded OR pressed on but you'd definately know how its put together.
    I know it'd be expensive but if it's trashed already perhaps it would agree to give it's body to science (for the betterment of the zone). And I'll bet somebody would send you 20 bucks just to know the secret!!!

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin
    Posts
    11,520

    Default

    Hey...I have pics of the pump with the pulley off...thanks to a member...some are kinda repeats of each other in a sense....but hopefully they will help::
















  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Posts
    499

    Default

    I have one of those pumps without the pulley. There are no threads on the end of the shaft. The pulley is a press fit from what I can tell. I have no experience working on the waterpump but if I was trying to remove the pulley, I'd pack the pump and shaft in dry ice for a while and heat the pulley hub with the torch quickly while trying to use the grade 8 bolt to jack the pulley off the shaft. Robert-CA

    ps, I see Brut4c posted a picture while I was typing.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin
    Posts
    11,520

    Default

    And even a few more:








  9. #9

    Default

    Yeah, I was going to say Cut it lengthwise with a bandsaw. Maybe it will fall apart after that. Not needed now!
    "We are here for the meeting!"

  10. #10

    Default

    So, if you got the shaft out of the aluminum housing, It would be easier to freeze and then heat the pulley.
    "We are here for the meeting!"

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