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Thread: robsgp : so many questions

  1. #1

    Default robsgp : so many questions

    so many questions
    Post by robsgp on May 21, 2006, 9:11pm

    I'm fairly new to the zone and a shade tree mechanic with basic tools and skills. My m715 brush fire truck needs quite a bit of work. It had been sitting for 10yrs when I bought it. We got it to start but there was a lot of white smoke for the first 10min and gas was leaking from the carb.

    I've never rebuilt a carb before. I bought a NOS kit to overhaul the Holley 1920. I pumped all the old yellow gas out using the cheap electric fuel pump that had been added. I replaced the fuel filter with a clear plastic one. I put it all back together, cleaned the sooty plugs, added fresh gas and tried it. It popped a few times but won't start. The fuel filter stays about half full. I don't smell gas so I poured a splash down the throat a couple times. One time it wanted to go, once it didn't. I read in a manual about checking the wet fuel level through the economizer diaphragm opening with it running, but don't know what to expect if it's not. What else can I check?

    The rear brakes were dragging so I pulled the back drums. The left shoes are gummy I guess from leaking brake fluid. The wheel cylinder caps are pretty flexible and look to be in good shape. Should I rebuild or replace the wheel cylinders, or clean everything up and check for leaks after I get new shoes? The master cylinder has leaked, eating paint inside and outside the firewall. Brake parts seem to be a little rare (no one has everything) and expensive ($25/shoe?). Any recommendations?
    I haven't even looked at the front yet.

    The LR hub is missing one of the studs/bolts. Is this allowing muck into the bearings? Can just the stud be replaced?

    I just received a set of data plates. Do all 5 mount to a plate that then mounts to the dash between the guages and glove box? Any good pics of a stock dash? And does anyone going to the FE have a set of number stamps? I'm thinking of attending the FE even though the truck won't be ready. It'd be nice to meet some of you and see a few m715's.
    Thanks,
    Rob

  2. #2

    Default drvnkaiserdaily :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by drvnkaiserdaily on May 21, 2006, 10:54pm

    The first thing to do is remove all the variables except the carb,since you know it ran before.First,make sure that the firing order is correct after cleaning the plugs(which I have never had much luck with,but save the new ones till after you get it running good) Be sure that the coil wire is secure(as im sure you had it loose while working on it)After checking these things and with the ignition off,look down inside the carb and pull the throttle open.There should be a spray of gas from the accelerator pump.If it does not suqirt a shot os gas ,either the pump isnt working or the carb has not filled with gas to supply the pump.If your truck sat for 10 yrs,the fuel pump diaphram could be damaged or bad.If it does squirt,you know you have fuel getting to the motor.Next would be to check to see if it is getting good spark.I would recommend getting an old plug and put it in the wire and grnd. it to the block.It should have a good blue spark,not weak and yellow.Did you check the cond. of the points.They should be inspected after sitting all that time. Good luck and keep this hobby going.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Port Orchard, Wash.
    Posts
    4,572

    Default binfordm715 :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by binfordm715 on May 21, 2006, 11:34pm

    Welcome aboard, Rob!

    Some of the guys have talked about getting brakes relined by local shops. Either way, it's a bit costly. I think there is a modern brake cylinder swap you can do that only required slightly enlarding the mounting hole. Perhaps someone will chime in about that.

    Yes, you got the data plate setup correct. Let's see if I can find a good pic among my collection for you. Here's an okay one:




    Hope to see you at the FE!

  4. #4

    Default jeepistdougiowa :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by jeepistdougiowa on May 21, 2006, 11:54pm

    I'd check firing order first...all else shouldn't have changed much.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Fort Smith, Arkansas
    Posts
    911

    Default wrecker :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by wrecker on May 22, 2006, 8:57am

    There is an easy, inexpensive upgrade for the master cylinder. The stock unit from a FSJ pickup about early 70's will work. This is a dual so you'll need to seperate the front and rear circuits at the splitter block on th e frame. The adapters, new line, T fitting and master cylinder all together was less than 30 dollars. The wheel cylinders from a E-350 Ford van from around 1993 will work with a little enlarging of the mounting holes. I think the rear shoes from a GM 14 bolt can be made to work but I can't exactly remember. Also, the drums and hubs are made to be indexed one way and if they aren't re-installed the same way as original, you can see some problems. Who knows how many times they were off before though right? You should expect some fuel tank mud/rust/sludge problems and a leaky fuel pump diaphram. An engine swap would be cheaper than rebuilding your Tornado, but if you wait, there are often parts for free that might get you running for now. Hope that helps. Bill

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
    Location
    North Central Wisconsin
    Posts
    11,409

    Default brute4c :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by brute4c on May 22, 2006, 9:10am

    On the master cylinder, you can buy the stock one, rebuilt from NAPA...tell them to look up a 1966 Gladiator pickup...there is a picture of it in their parts book and it looks exactly like tyhe stock one...cause it is...

    The brake shoes, you can try to do them yourself or pay the big bucks or have them relined locally...you can add semi metallic material instead of the stock, asbestos, type. Usually, if you have a NAPA nearby, they an get them done or know where you can...you can also check the phone book for a relining shop...you might have one local..

    The wheel cyliners can be replaced with some that fit 93-94 Ford 1 tons. Tru torque part numbers W37262 and W37263, left and right.
    The following are part numbers for one side, not sure which off hand
    Bendix 33595
    Raybestos WC37263
    EIS EW73615
    Wagner F73615

    To fit these, you need to open the 2 bolt holes that mount the wheel cylinder by about 1/4 hole on the bottom side of the existing holes. Once you do that, I used a rat tail file, these will bolt in. These also feature stainless steel pistons...nice.

    The rear axle/brake drum condition you describe as "gummy"...could be that the wheel cylinder leaks or that the rear axle seal leaks...need to verify which...you can see a line of geaar oil from the bottom side of the axle where it goes through the backing plate or the stuff smells like gear oil, replace the seal...they are pretty easy to do.

    The missing stud on the rear flange...I dont think any of those are fluid bolts but I am not sure...so I cant answer the contamination part right off the top of my head...I would recommend putting something in their anyway and one can use a hardened bolt in place of the stud...

    I would follow the carb info above...sounds good to me...as well, the data plate info is spot on.

  7. #7

    Default robsgp :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by robsgp on May 27, 2006, 8:05pm

    The firing order is on the valve cover but are the cylinders numbered 1-6, front to back? What is it telling me if my spark is orange?

  8. #8

    Default tomkirkman :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by tomkirkman on May 27, 2006, 9:01pm

    If the points are damaged the engine will not run. In fact, it won't even fire.

    The carb will work and the engine will run even if the accelerator pump diaphram is bad, but you'll have a lag or drop whenever you hit the gas and try to accelerate. Plus, it'll be kind of hard to start.

    The 230 engine floods easily. Don't keep pushing the gas pedal (if the accelerator pump is bad, however, it won't make any difference). Let it sit overnight and then give it 1/2 choke and hit the starter switch. Don't hit the gas pedal.

    That is a very easy carburetor to rebuild. Takes all of 10 minutes. Just follow the instructions in the M715 tech manual. Not much to it. Pretty simple.

  9. #9

    Default warwick :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by warwick on May 27, 2006, 9:09pm

    welcome to the madness

    your truck sounds just like mine was when i brought it home.

    good luck

    and yes cylinders #s front to back 1-6, firing order 1-5-3-6-2-4 counter clockwise

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Lone Pine, CA
    Posts
    451

    Default luckypabst :

    Re: so many questions
    Post by luckypabst on May 27, 2006, 9:23pm

    15's too young. 36's too old. 24's just right.

    Chris

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