Restoration project planning

[vacca rabite]

I'm just about done with the Porsche I am restoring (which I put the truck on hold for to get it done) and hope to be able to dive into the 715 this summer. With the 914, I did not start with a plan in mind, and my restoration wandered over the three years that it took me to get it back to where it is now, and way more money then I intended to spend.

For those of you that put together a project plans for their trucks, or who need to plan for their restoration businesses (looking at you two, Randy and Ryan), what can you suggest?

What worked, what didn't, what do you wish you had tried?

Hopefully, soon I'll be able to start updating my project thread again.

Zach

[Barrman]

I wasn't listed, but I will throw in a few:

What do you want the truck to do?

How much of the work are you going to do yourself?

How much do you want to spend?

Do you ever want to redo it again in the future?

Get the answer to those and you will be well on your way. I wanted a truck that could tow 10K over the road, get 10 mpg or better doing it and still be used around the place as a farm truck while acting as my daily driver. Trails and such were a secondary side effect. I got a truck that will do what I started out wanting if you consider 54 mph as "highway." I am just a "put the NP205 on my shop floor" in the truck away from any speed I want.

Life changes things though. I no longer daily drive it, my M35's have taken over the highway heavy hauling and I mostly just use the M715 for parades, trail riding and runs to town. I think a very quiet exhaust system and EFI are what needs to be done next to help the new mission. Or a diesel.

Think about kids and future uses before you start changing stuff too much. There are only 2 seats in the truck so family fun is kind of hard to get.

[Hammer]

In addition to Tim's good list.
What do you think/know is wrong with it.
What else could be wrong with it.
I often make a plan of what I WANT it to do and be. Then I tear into it to find out what condition the vehicle is in.
Makes for a big mess if you are not prepared. But it really helps with all the 'surprises' later down the road.

Unfortunately I have the mindset of 'I will only replace/fix this once'. So I leave it alone until I can do it properly. And usually overkill at that
Problem is that this kind of thinking gets a little spending in the short term. But pays off in the long run.

[vacca rabite]

When I get some ideas on how folks planned thier projects, I'll start making my own plan and stick it in the existing project thread. I only pointed out Ryan and Randy as I know they work / own thier own shops and might be required to create restoration project plans to present to the customer or keep them selves within budget. I know others here are pros as well, but I don't know who you all are yet.

All of your input is very welcome.

Zach

[Mikel]

Evaluate the vehicle VERY carefully.

Draft a list of parts/services you will need and budget accordingly.

Buy parts/services in the order you will need.

PLAN, PLAN, PLAN...

Do not dismantle the car until all of the above are done, or you will lose momentum and your vehicle will end up in the local paper as pile of parts.

[randyscycle]

Plan is the keyword, no matter the direction you head with the project.

Here's what we typically do with any restoration estimate for a customer or my own projects:

First, a thorough evaluation of the condition of the vehicle in question. Right down to the nuts, bolts, and bulbs. Its next to impossible to figure everything, but you can get very close.

Second, (not really relevant in you case as far as budget) we estimate a time in labor hours. This is still good in a personal project because it gives a solid time frame for finishing and doesn't result in the 3 year wandreing you had with the Porsche. I have a 2 year bike now that I just dove into without following my own advice!

Third, a thorough evaluation of the necessary parts and budget to work with. This goes a long way in determining the time frame and work you will actually do. We also leave about a 10% buffer in there costwise for any unexpected stuff that can and usually does come up. 20% if its a very rare vehicle.

As far as things that don't work: Total disassembly before any plans are made. No budget before starting. An unclear plan. Not laying it out on paper. General disorganizaton. All those can really hinder the progress and also tend to feel overwhelming, which will lead to a non completed project.

There is a lot more in detail, and I will post up as it comes to mind.

[vacca rabite]

Everyone has posted up good stuff!

Randy/Mikel: When you do the evaluation, how do you stay on topic? Do you use a form, just take a huge list, breake it down by major components (eg: axles, fuel system, brakes, etc).

For things like all the rusty bolts (and they all seem to be rusty after 40 years), do you just plan on rebuying in advance and ordering accordingly, or do you wait and see whats salvagable (and risk delays when things don't work as planned).


Zach

[ryanroo]

we do alot of custom work, so we vaguely guess at what it will take as far as time. for big projects, our speed is often determined by the depth of pockets on the customer end. if they can buy whatever we need right now, we could go from a stack of tubing to a turnkey in 6 weeks. par for the course is more like 6 months due to budgets. we tell all of our customers we bill based on time and materials. that is really the only way for us to go. since we build mostly full on custom rigs its hard to quote that.

as for myself, when i started my build i had a fairly concrete plan as to what i wanted. i also had an order as to when it would get done. my plan was a GM BBC and 4speed to start. that way i could get it on the road ASAP. so far everything i wanted to do to my truck before i started is still what i have done. luckily for me i found good deals on parts that allowed me to do the build the way i wanted the first time. that aso streched the time to get it back on the road. as it is now, i am looking at just under a year to get it driveable. as with any project, no matter how concrete the plan, it will change as you go. if you make a plan, force yourself to stick to it, unless you find a better part, or a better way to improve the vehicle. if you do that, even if you spend a little more money than planned, you will enjoy your truck more when it is done.

that is what i have done. i have alos changed my plan to save money. my original plan was to use a LoMax 205. that is 2k. i just decided that an OEM transfer case would due and save me 1700 bucks. that goes quite a ways in keeping the project going. so i guess my advice is decide what you want the truck to do, and how you want it built. don't set lofty goals as far as hot rod parts that can be added later as funds/time allow. once the plan is set, act on it and do as little to change it as possible. also don't be afraid to do it in steps. engine/tranny swap, drive it for a while. new axles drive it for a while. there is nothing wrong with doing it that way keeping your interest alive and keeping the truck usable.

ryan

[Kaiserjeeps]

I always have a vision of the final product. What I want it to do and how I want it to look. I photo document most parts of the disassembly even if I think I will remember. I separate the systems and build repair them individually. I save all old parts till I am done. I have often used/grafted, patterned many things from old parts. I think about the rig nearly 24/7 and solve issues in my head first. I then try to put them into a physical form.
I will often search for parts on Ebay or online for rigs I have not even started yet. I shelve the parts till I start. My 69 waggie has piles of NOS stuff waiting for me. So planning is the key. Always figure you will spend more than you plan to.

I rebuild or build custom cars and trucks where I work. They don't seem to be interested in anything I can contribute rather than here is where I want you to weld. I have built a frame that was recently dispalyed at 2009 SEMA in Vegas. It is a revolutionary new design that will have NO restrictions to frame shape and have no stressed metal. It goes under a 1972 unibody Toyota Corona. I have gutted the car and fit the car down on the frame.The frame was designed by some one who does not know cars. I just built it as per instruction. I asked to be included in the design. I was not. The frame construction went horrible. I told them what the issues were with building a frame the way we did. Having a non car guy fresh out of school is why the steering shaft now points directly at the center of the frame flange 2 inches above it. I have to make it work. Thats why I was bugging Ryan about if he was hiring. There are some really good ideas here. There is no opportunity for input on these ideas. I have added what won't work and I am not respected for my experience. Two weeks later I have proven that I was right. Wasted time and unsafe bandaids to fix it. It's just a job. I want to get back to being a craftsman and working an automotive art. I feel like a rich guys hobby bi*ch now.

Anyway, plan it out. Start from the ground up...lol.

[randyscycle]

Everyone has posted up good stuff!

Randy/Mikel: When you do the evaluation, how do you stay on topic? Do you use a form, just take a huge list, breake it down by major components (eg: axles, fuel system, brakes, etc).

For things like all the rusty bolts (and they all seem to be rusty after 40 years), do you just plan on rebuying in advance and ordering accordingly, or do you wait and see whats salvagable (and risk delays when things don't work as planned).


Zach

We have a standard method and use our regular invoice templates to lay it out. We do a fine tooth comb approach based on the customers' desire and expectations of the vehicle. The order is this:

First, operational (running, functioning, evaluation of what is serviceable, etc)

Second, safety (lights, brakes, steering, etc)

Third, modifications (engine swaps, upgrades)

Fourth, cosmetics (paint, body, chrome)

As far as it goes with things like hardware we just go on past experience to some degree, then tear down and see what is reusable, able to be re-plated, or replaced. Time delays generally aren't too much of a problem if your time frame is realistic. M715 parts are not too impossible to find, in most cases. An average resto here for something fairly mainstream in motorcycledom is about 6 months. Keep in mind that is with approximately 5-10 other restorations going on at the same time. Something that is very rare or one-of-a-kind, can stretch out to a year.