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Thread: 6BT vs. Tornado 230 Size

  1. #1
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    Default 6BT vs. Tornado 230 Size

    I have been reading for years that a 6BT will not fit in a M715 without massive amounts of firewall changes. I have seen a few pictures of them in the trucks and they all have firewall cuts. Well, I happen to have a 6BT in my shop that belongs to Sermis. A 230 came to my shop the same day. I finally got to unload them both today and put them on engine dollys.

    Lined up side by side on dollys that are basically the same size. The 6BT is huge. However, when you consider that the dolly holds the engines up by the pan rail, you start to realize how much more stout the 6BT is. The block extends past the crank shaft for more strength. Here is a front shot of them side by side:



    Here you can see the front fans lined up almost exactly:



    Then you see the transmission mounting surface of the bell housings are also lined up almost exactly:


    What does this all mean? To me it means that a 6BT will fit into a stock frame and cab M715 without major surgery. Will a spring over be needed to clear the oil pan of the taller engine? More than likely yes. What about the intercooler? I have no clue. What you see in the picture is all we are going to start out with. I figure to mount up the stock Gertrag 5 speed to the 6BT, make a tube from the turbo to the intake and see how it goes down the road. Pictures and story will follow as work progresses over the next year or so.
    Last edited by Binford; October 26th, 2008 at 12:41 AM. Reason: Cleaned up the pic links
    Remember if you didn't build it you can't call it yours.

    6.2 powered M715, 5 M1009's, M416, 2 M101's, 2 M105's, 3 M35's, M1007 6.5 turbo Suburban project called Cowdog.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCz...HGkBCfhXZ5iuaw

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 1998
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    Default

    I was under the impression that the 6BT was moved rearward to give some clearance from the front axle and still needed the springover for the rest of the clearance required...

    Interesting pics...if there is a way to do it without the chop and cut stuff, I am sure you can find it...you are very skilled.

  3. #3

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    Can you post a pic of the 6bt that shows the oil pan.

  4. #4
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    Default

    I already moved the engines under the shelf and have the MGA in front of them. I will go back out Sunday and try to get a shot of the 6BT oil pan. Better yet, stop on by in your travels if you want.
    Remember if you didn't build it you can't call it yours.

    6.2 powered M715, 5 M1009's, M416, 2 M101's, 2 M105's, 3 M35's, M1007 6.5 turbo Suburban project called Cowdog.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCz...HGkBCfhXZ5iuaw

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
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    Default

    Here it is:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    The front of the engine is to the right in the picture.
    Remember if you didn't build it you can't call it yours.

    6.2 powered M715, 5 M1009's, M416, 2 M101's, 2 M105's, 3 M35's, M1007 6.5 turbo Suburban project called Cowdog.

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCz...HGkBCfhXZ5iuaw

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Rhoadesville, Virginia (five miles from no place)
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    The biggest issue I seem to have seen is that the stack of exchangers in front makes some rearward movement necessary. The radiator, and intercooler alone are almost 5 inches thick, then if you add any other coolers, you are pushing the limits of the engine compartment.

    It also looks like the Cummins is a lot taller than the 230, and as such may run into a clearance issue with the top of the firewall where the indent sort of comes back forward at the top. That may necessitate going down with the engine, but then you will lose your transmission/transfer alignment. That seems like another reason for firewall surgery.
    Last edited by randyscycle; October 26th, 2008 at 09:07 PM.
    "Free advice is worth what you pay for it."™

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Georgetown, CA
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    I saw a picture on the board a while back where a guy put a non-intercooled in without modifying the firewall and still using the fan. In all the measurements I could come up with, I think it will go. Mine is non-intercooled, but I am going to try to plumb in an aftermarket intercooler in front of the radiator inside the factory grill opening if I can find something that will work. With my upgraded turbo and fuel, I need to cool the EGT. I look forward to seeing your progress. I expect that I will start on mine in the spring after the snow is gone here. . .

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by moosejr View Post
    I saw a picture on the board a while back where a guy put a non-intercooled in without modifying the firewall and still using the fan. In all the measurements I could come up with, I think it will go. Mine is non-intercooled, but I am going to try to plumb in an aftermarket intercooler in front of the radiator inside the factory grill opening if I can find something that will work. With my upgraded turbo and fuel, I need to cool the EGT. I look forward to seeing your progress. I expect that I will start on mine in the spring after the snow is gone here. . .
    Forgive me for whoever's rig this is. He is doing a 6x6 conversion as well.

    As for the turbo downpipe. I am clocking and flipping the turbo to run a hood stack, so that fixes the turbo downpipe issue for me





    The cross brace in front is where i beleive the grill is mounting. I am going to run a 1st gen intercooler in front of the radiator (inside the grill). So from this standpoint there is no cutting. Also a guy sold his 715 on Ebay last year that had a industial 6bt in it. He had dyno charts of running alittle over 600hp (with nitrous) and he did not cut. Look forward to the pics.
    Last edited by gun512; October 28th, 2008 at 08:48 AM.

  9. #9

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    I think that 6x6 is mikkel's, not 100% sure. He made a custom frame for it. I think he is on 4bt conversion website too. It's going to be a really nice rig when its done.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    New Haven, CT
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    1,954

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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn View Post
    I think that 6x6 is mikel's, not 100% sure. He made a custom frame for it. I think he is on 4bt conversion website too. It's going to be a really nice rig when its done.
    Hello,
    Yes, that's mine. You can fit the 6BT without having to cut the firewall, but I wanted to fit an intercooler confortably, so I ended up mounting the engine a couple inches behind the firewall.

    I have a J300 with a 4BT and it fits very nicely. I think it would be an ideal engine for a M715.
    Mikel

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