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How is the old lube drained out of the front knuckle housing? I cleaned up all around the fill plugs before I'm going to remove them, and I know the housing gets filled until fluid reaches fill plug hole. Does it need to be pumped out with a hand pump? Also can I use the same 80/85/90 weight oil I used in the transfer case, trans, and differentials?
Also the same basic question for the removal and filling of the steering gear housing. Thanks.
According to the manuals, the military steering knuckles use grease to fill not gear oil. Civilian applications use gear oil. Some people on both sides of that fence make a mixture of about 50% of each gear oil and grease and put that in...it has the nickname of "knuckle pudding". This keeps knuckles that tend to leak gear oil from leaking too much but lets better cold temp lube happen than with grease.
The only way I know of the really clean it out is to open it up...that said, if one got the steering knuckle good and warm on a warm summer day from a nice drive...or maybe like a magnet mount block heater?...then open the drain plug and let it flow.
As far as the steering, I could just get the top hex filler port open with a crescent wrench from the front...tight spot...as far as emptying it, I think one would have to take it off and turn it over or somehow suck the stuff out...
Wow, now I'm totally confused Jon. I fully understand what you said, but here's my questions. First, where is the drain plug/hole? Second, would you just pump grease through the filler hole until 1/2 full, (to filler plug hole)? Finally, being my truck is never driven off road, and not driven many miles, is it safe to go with 90 weight gear lube?
Their is a steel plate, held on by 4 bolts on the bottom of the housing. I hate to fool with it, as it has never leaked a drop. Maybe the housing is filled with grease, thus less chance of a leak?
I think the drain hole for the knuckle is to remove one of the four bolts at the bottom.
MrNeutron, that may be a very good observation you came up with. Guess I wouldn't be compromising any sealing of the plate gasket, by removing one of the bolts. I will give that a try and see what happens. Very interesting concept if it works.
Just wondering if it may be the same type of situation with the draining of the steering box?
How about this idea, the thinking of many is to stuff the Braden LU-4 winch with John Deere Special-Purpose Corn Head Gun Grease instead of GO-90. It is green stuff and they use it in farm implements from what I read (I am not a farmer). That is what I will use in my winch. Face it, how much will I REALLY use my winch?
What is the thinking on that?
http://www.greenpartstore.com/John-D...-AN102562.html
Exactly what I used. Someone here recommended that way back when I was restoring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Cavey
Thanks Ron for that experience. It further confirms the way to go for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by rboltz
Ok, so I took out the fill plugs and found grease on the inside of the plugs. No need to try and drain the knuckle housing, cause grease sure won't flow out. I took Jon's advice and left what grease was there, and added 90w gear lube. I think he called it "Knuckle pudding". Kind of a pain to fill though. Fill plugs point down slightly. I used a rubber tube attached to the top of the quart squeeze bottle, put the tube in the hole and squeezed the bottle until it ran out the fill hole.
How are these housings filled with grease? Unless you have a neumatic grease gun, I would imagine you just use a hand held pump style and pump grease in until you can see it at the fill plug hole.
In the manual it says that the housing takes 1 pint, which kinda led me to believe they were talking about fluid, rather than grease.
Forgot to add that I also pulled off my PVC valve today. Amazingly it still rattled. I could blow through it, And do I dare say, that when I sucked in, the valve closed tightly.
Oil and filter changed, all fittings greased. As far as lubrication goes, I think I'm set.
that old grease was probably hard or close to it. military used gaa artillery brown looking grease. and filled the knuckles litterally full.
All this talk about packing the knuckles with grease, but yet the manual talks about 1 pint of what I would presume to be 90w gear oil.
Hard to tell what was left inside. The grease that I took off the plugs was still pretty soft.
The best I could tell, the knuckle housing was pretty empty. Might be a good idea for everyone to check their's out if they haven't in a while.
Ugh... thanks for giving me something else to worry about.
Actually last week when I was working on mine I noticed the plugs on the housings. When I lubed it after I bought the truck I didn't know the knuckles were lubed separate from the diff... thought they were lubed by the gear oil in the pumpkin and didn't even think about it till I saw the plugs last week.
Backs of the knuckles look awful dry... bet they're empty and the seals are shot.
I need to change the oil in the axles and transfer case anyway while it's down... I'll get those too.
I have been biting my lip in this thread....
Reading and thinking.
After reading what others have said,
I'm back to my orig. thinking.
* I think the best way to service the knuckles....
Wait for it....
Is to pull them apart. ***
Yep...
Dirty and big job...
But the reason I say that is,
The Knuckle pudding / gear oil / artillery grease that You will find inside of there... Yellow and Brown and thick as CLAY
Is pretty sticky and hardedned and stuck to all the areas where its thrown by centrifugal force.
50 years ago, they were properly packd and lubed...
its just time to take off the hubs, brakes, backing plate and separate the knuckles and clean them out good...
And the front axles too.
I KNOW it sounds like a PITA, and it is...
But the one thing about these trucks....
every half century or so....
They require some TLC and Service.
Then You are good to go for another three decades or more.
When I did Mine, they were all apart... I cleaned everything really well
And literally BLEW IN, with an air gun and an air hose, two Tubes of Red N Tacky by Lucas, into each knuckle.
The Air forced the Lucas into every crevice and recess, probably better than the factory actually.
I put it all back together... Used My OLD knuckle seals...( cause I didnt have new ones )
And everything is fine...
After I drove it a few miles, I opened up the fill plug and topped it off with Gear oil.
I also found a hill and rolled the truck with each axle down for a bit, to help any gear oil from the differential flow through the tube to the knuckle as well.
checked it sitting flat a week later...
Everything was perfect.
I will need to do that again in about 30 years.
There is just no way to get it clean an inspected with out pulling it.
*In My Opinion *
If You do pull them, keep the shims in the same place, top and bottom ( 4 bolts on the bottom and the King pin on the top )
The shims set the steerin' angles... so dont mix them up.
Beware of the woodruff key holding the king pin ball in...
It will stick to greasy rags and walk away.
Best of Luck.
I really think....
Pull it apart, do it once and smile for three decades
Can't disagree with you. They lasted this long, they will outlast us ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitz
One member actually put grease fittings on in place of the fill plugs...then pumped in grease till they wouldn't take more....axle was later sold to another user and it was torn down...the amount of grease put in actually pushed the tube seal, just inboard of the knuckle in the tube, almost to the differential at the other end of the tube, not a good idea...there is a fill limit.
For some reason, I was thinking there was a drain hole on the bottom but that's not so...sorry for the confusion there.
If you look at the -12 lube order it does specify grease...we have been around this tree several times over the years as it does seem odd...well, frankly, it is odd.
Another note that Barrman brought up years ago and is very important in my book...since the lube in the knuckles needs to lubricate the whole joint in the knuckle, if one adds ,lockout front hubs, they need to be engaged on a regular basis in order to let that lube do its job...something I didn't think about till he said it...it also lubes the upper king pin bearing...another important reason to turn them on periodically.
All Good Points Brute.
I just want to clarify,
By using air, I was not "pumping the Lucas IN with air Pressure" like an air powered grease gun...
I used a hand grease pump, pumped in what I could from the open front ( no brake backing plate ) with the flex hose, then used an air gun to "blow it into the back" and around the knuckles.
Hydraulic Ram Pressure sure could be brought into play with a grease fitting, everything sealed, and then "pumping them full"
Not a good idea...
Just coat everything... spin the axles, used an inspection light and it will all make sense.
The Oil after the Grease... when everything is sealed.
Yep...
I not gonna be happy to do that again in three decades :P
I am not sure what type of grease gun this member used, just that he did have the zerks on the knuckle file plugs and kept putting in tubes until no more would go in...I dont remember the number of tubes but it was a bigger number than I would have done under any circumstance...
Yep...
He got some Hydraulic ram pressure going.
Sealed knuckle, backing plate on, differential cover probably on too.
That grease fitting, where the fill plug was...
allowed him to pump in "who knows how many PSI " of grease in , under pressure.
If it moved the outboard seal to the differential...
I would say it was a bit overkill.
Sounds like something Jiffy Lube would do...
Pump it full of grease and slam the plug back on before it can drain out...
* been there... done that , bought the expensive T shirt * for an '85 chevy silverado
an no.... they didnt make good on the two rear axle seals, or ruined brake shoes or labor...
Lesson learned...
Never went back...
Really bad thing is....
I watched the guy do it.
Zerks to replace the fill plug? If Kaiser Jeep would have wanted these instead of plugs, wouldn't they have installed them when the truck was manufactured? All that grease sounds crazy to me.
It is crazy...basically I just gave a "dont do this to your truck" warning there...I think it was actually Barrman who bought the axle and did the autopsy on it....I could be wrong on that part but I know it was a highly respected mechanical member like him.
Well Jon, this has been an informative post I think. Hopefully everyone got the message, to not pack your front knuckle housings with grease. Everything in moderation. More is not better in this case.
Ill tell ya, I am so thankful for this forum. When doing a routine lube maintance, I saw the fill/drain plugs at the knuckle. I figured because of where they were, that you would just put a gear oil and be done. I even had the bucket sitting beside the wheel ready to go. Then I thought, I better look this up on the forum. I put heavy duty gear grease in. Next time, I will go with the pudding. I think I might make a special grease gun, just for it. (pulled the end nipple on gun, for faster fill. Yes, my hands are tired)
Get the John Deere corn head grease. Fits right into your grease gun.
Just to confirm (or refute) a hunch; the grease in the knuckle is really only for lubing the king pins, right? My '08 Dodge has its front axle shaft u-joints sitting in right out in the open. I wouldn't think they're different in their construction from an M715 u-joint, so no actual lubrication of the u-joint can take place due to the bearing seals, even if they're surrounded by nutritious, delicious cornhead grease.
Am I on the right track here?
The u-joints inside of the steering knuckles shouldn't have any seals on them allowing lubricant to seep into the needles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailhead
I use 140w gear oil in all of my 1960's jeep steering knuckles.
I also keep the hubs locked in on them to keep the gear oil slinging around.
Look into 00 grease sold at tractor supply. We use it in hay mowers and hay rake gear boxes. Like a thin grease or heavy oil
https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/pr...ndle-grease-00
Thanks Dan-- I haven't been in there yet, so I'm not yet familiar with those knuckles.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeepdan
I don't yet know what exactly I'll put in there, but those hubs will stay unlocked until I need them, maybe lock 'em once in a while to keep things lubed. Not enough oxygen around here to burden the 230 with unnecessary frictional loads.
That is a good plan as long as you do lock them in sometimes to lube the upper king pin bearing...otherwise...bad things happen...