Give me some feedback on what you think is better for this truck. A small block or big block?
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Give me some feedback on what you think is better for this truck. A small block or big block?
I'd answer, but you are being way too specific with your question.
The best answer to give you is: Whatever you want and can afford. Either will work great and it just boils down to what you want the truck to do and how much you want to spend to do it.
Big block, of course!!
A long stoke small block versus a short stroke big block OR a high RPM small block with high horsepower versus a low RPM big block that has gobs of low end torque OR something in between?
It depends on:
A: what you want to use it for, not just off roading but mudding, rockcrawling, sand drags, whatever...as well as how much highway use with what kind of load and will there be towing too?
B: Do you plan to use an automatic or a manual? What gears are you gonna run? Do you need a granny low in the trans or do you plan to not do the rockcrawling end but need wheel speed like mud boggers do?
C: Tcase issues come up as to how much gearing you need and, if it is married to the trans, well, it has to be a do-able union...if divorced, more options but can you get the gears and outputs you want?
D: Depending on how you answer the above depends on how much you need to upgrade axles to hold whatever you decided on...
E: Are you uncomfortable with Ford or Chevy or Mopar? Do you have one or more engines laying around? Is money a driving factor or doesnt matter? How about ease of swap?
You need to take the whole vehicle and its intended purpose into account and then work from there to build a platform that meets those needs.....without us having any idea what those needs are, there is no way we can give you any kind of enlightened answer beyond what others have already posted...
I hope that makes sense...
I have a good 454 bbc and a 350 sbc that needs to be rebuilt. I want to use the stock t98 and transfer case. I don't drive it on the highway that much but I do drive it to work a lot, about 10 to 15 miles going 35-40 mph. But still need it to do good in the mud and climbing hills.Quote:
Originally Posted by jrok93003
stock gears,and tires? use the 350.i put a 350 in a 715 it got 10 m.p.g. and was faster than my big block 725 that gets 5 m.p.g.
After seeing Joe/Ia's truck work the way it does, I'd strongly consider the 454/700r4 (or the 4l80e).
Great torque off road and the OD+38" tires allows him to cruise 65 on the highway as long as he wants. Stock axles and gears and IIRC he gets better than 10mpg...almost thinking 11-13, that's with a used 454 with way over 100k on the clock. Thinking it's been in his truck for 10-12 years now.
Good combo with little to no increase in fuel consumption over a 350.
My 396/NV4500 gets 11-13 mpg @55 mph without a trailer and 9-10 mpg at the same speed pulling another M715 on a 2k pound trailer. That is with the XZL tires too.
Doug, I agree, I want my truck to be like Joes when it grows up.
I was just pondering this myself. I have a neighbor that scraps at least on 3rd gen camaro a week. I'm going to be getting a 350 TBI off him in a couple of weeks. It's affordable and he's a GM tech. That was my deciding factor. I'm also getting two SM 465 trannies this weekend. I'm also getting a 205 for cheap. Again deciding factor. Easily replacable parts, cheap parts and easy to trouble shoot. I really wnated to keep aJeep drivetrain, but I want fuel injection and to inject a 360 or 401 is expensive and kinda hard. Look around what's near you, that'll help.
A fuel injected LT1 is a lot better than a carbed big block in 99% of the situations you are going to have this truck in. Try to find an overdrive transmission. Otherwise, you will never see the positive side of 10 mpg.
What would be a good overdrive trans? I would like to keep it a cluch though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
NV4500 is the best choice out there....
NV4500 or the 3052 over drive from M35A2 trucks. Several members have had success with one or the other. You need a specific bell housing to mount either the NV4500 or the 3052. They won't work without the right one for the transmission.
Tim, 3052 is non O.D. The 3053a is the O.D. Thats what I got waiting for my swap.
I couldn't remember if it was a 3052A or 3052A1, so I just called it an overdrive 3052. Sorry for any confusion.
The way to tell overdrive Duece transmissions from non overdrive ones is the shift pattern. If the pattern looks like a normal 5 speed pattern, then it is a non overdrive. If 3rd and 4th are next to each other on the bottom of pattern, then it is an overdrive. The cases are same on the outside, so try to find one still in the truck and look at the data plate.
Where can i get one of the trans? About how much? Will there be a bellhousing that will fit my 454 bbc to the trans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
Please reply....
There have been several for sale here on the Zone in the last month or so. There was one on E-Bay a week or so ago for $750 or so the last time I saw it. I don't know if it sold or not. Several members here have them as well. They probably know the prices better than I.
The bellhousing you need is from a C60 or C70 along with select school buses that had 427 or 366 Tall Deck Big Blocks. It has to have an SAE#2 bolt pattern for the transmission. One of our members, Over2land, wrote an article in JP about the conversion a few years ago. He used a lot of information from another member, Spicergear. I have the article at home and need to find it. Over2land and others might show up here to post more.
The NV4500 also needs the correct bellhousing. If you find one of them, see if you can get the bellhousing too. Try for mid to late '90's 2wd units from Chevy trucks. They have hydraulic slave cylinder/throw out bearing units that are great. Might as well take the master cylinder from the donor truck while you are getting stuff. NV4500's are in the $800-$1200 range.
The 3053A as it comes out of the deuce has an SAE #2 bellhousing, you either need the other half of that (the big cast iron part that bolts to the engine) or else you remove the SAE bellhousing piece and then the transmission to the standard C-60 gas engine bellhousing. The housing you are looking for has a bolt hole at the bottom where it bolts to the transmission which will allow it to bolt right up to the 3053A.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
There are 2 Spicer 3053 transmissions on ebay now. They are in Michigan. Search Spicer transmission.
Don
i hered that small block would be good, a big block can crack a chassis becouse the high torque, and you can get the same amount of power out of a 350 as you can a 454.....and 350s i hered are cheaper......ide chose a 350
Foodstamp,
I normally let statements like yours just be because everyone has their own opinion. You are the 15 year old, right? I figured you should be made aware of a few things.
I personally love SBC engines. They fit just about anything, they are light and parts are cheaper for them than any other engine made. But, except for the 2000 and newer Gen III electronic engines and a 383 stroker conversion, most SBC engines develop their torque at rpms above 3000 rpm. With many making peak torque at 4500+ rpms.
BBC engines for the most part and just about all big block engines for that matter develop torque at lower rpms. A 1970 Buick 455 was listed as having 510 ft pounds at 2800 rpm by the factory. I used to have a '70 Riviera. That kind of torque is like a drug. You become addicted and can never get enough.
Sure, you can buy or build a SBC that puts out those kind of numbers. But, it will cost more than a big block with the same output. What kind of big block you use matters too. I have a 1966 396 in my M715. It is more of a screamer compared to the 454's, so I have to have more rpm than them to make the same torque. But, I was flat towing a 13000 pound M35 last month and just kept it right in the middle of my torqueband. 2200-3500. I had no trouble merging with traffic beside the fact that I couldn't see backwards or sideways. I don't think a small block with the same money invested could have done near as well. Same situation while I pulled a M715 on my trailer behind my M715 for 500 miles back in October. A small block could have done it, but not as well or as easily.
That leads us to diesel engines. A modern turbo diesel truck is the best thing since sliced bread in my opinion. As good as a big block is over a small block, a diesel is the same over the big blocks. They get better milage and last longer too. But, the cost of admission to the diesel side of the force is higher.
It all depends on what you want the truck to do and how much you want to spend. Oh, I do not recall any reports of M715 frames ever cracking or warping because of engine power issues. Power steering mounts breaking off because of too big tires, yes. But not too much power induced problems.
^^ what Tim said, with some extras
1. Small blocks can be built to have big block power, but the torque peak will always be higher. That's just physics. In trucks, the lower rpm the torque kicks in, the better.
2. "that kind of torque is like a drug." Hell yes it is!!!
3. Most of our vehicles will never see the high side of 4000rpms, so spending lots of money on a motor that doesn't kick in below that is not cost-effective. Again, small blocks like to rev a lot more than big-blocks. 454's can be built torquey for very little money (relatively).
4. I have a big Suburban with a 350, and a bigger K30 dually crew cab with a 454. The crew cab lost .75mpg and zero speed driving into a headwind with 5k loaded up. The Burb requires many RPM's to get up hills. The difference is torque.
5. Diesels absolutely ROCK, but they are heavy and expensive. Really, really heavy. For that reason, I absolutely love the 6.2/6.5 for the M715-- they can rev a little higher, are a little lighter than the other options, they fit, they're cheap, and they're easy. But they don't make huge power like the other ones.
and I've never heard of any cracked frames either.
Im runnin a 350 in my 725 and its strong but needs overdrive to drive on the highway plus the 205 to keep it running cooler. I can turn the boggers over pretty easy but Ive hurt the engine reving it to around 6000 on a rebuild that someone else did so now Im going to tear it out and go and rebuild a later 350 with efi and the nv 4500 and the 205 and tow my 715 around with it.
One 715 is getting a 635 cid chevy, nv4500 and 205 plus rockwells just for offroading use only.
Tac, my 725 hits around 6000 alot and its held together pretty godd all but the engine which has about 3500 milkes or less on it. cant drive it without turning it tight. LOL!
I am looking for some one who has done the BBC to 3053A mate with none cast iron parts for high rpm use
I can tell you in my experience with Big Block Chevys, that to turn lots of RPM, they take lots of $$$.Quote:
Originally Posted by Channing
A 454 is lazy and long stroking, so it isn't a big RPM turner.
A 396 is a short stroker and a small bore, so its a bit faster revving, but lower in the torque output area.
A 427 is a good choice for RPM and torque, as it combines the 396 stroke and the 454 bore.
A stock hydraulic lifter 396 will peak out at about 6,000 RPM give or take. A solid lifter version will go for about 7,000 for short stints.
They can and do suffer from oiling problems at high RPM in stock form as they tend to pump most of the oil to the top in those situations without a bigger pan and pickup assembly.
Sorry I was thinking in my tunnel vision I was asking for help seting up a steel flywheel and SFI bell housing between a BBC and a 3053A thanks
Probably won't happen, the input splines on the 3035a are too large for that small of a clutch.
If the big block is running, run it. The swap to the small block later would be very simple if you ever decided to. Biggest obstacle would be changing the exhaust. Maybe a different starter and engine accessory brackets too. Not a super big deal. Everything else I can think of would be a direct swap out.