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I was watching a video of a fella trying to get a barn find M715 to run and he mentioned that the E10 gas will destroy lots of the inner seals of the older engines. So what kind of fuel is safe? I know these engines were designed to run on leaded gas, which is history, but I haven't seen how to rectify that. So what do you use for fuel and why?
I run booze-free 87. The truck runs great on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by grymsr
Yep I run alcohol free REC. Gas. It cost a little bit more, but I don't have to worry about the ethanol eating at the rubber. I run it in all my older vehicles and in things that have a tendency to sit for a while like lawn mowers, generators, and such.
The Ethanol will clean out your fuel tank for you. Along with the metal fuel lines. Then it will rot the not ethanol ready fuel hoses, fuel pump diaphragm and maybe cause some issues with the bowl gasket on the carb if you have the rubber one on there.
The thing is that a clean fuel tank, clean fuel lines, new fuel hoses, fuel filter diaphragm and a carb rebuild are all things that a 50 year old vehicle probably need to have done to it anyway.
Put new ethanol compliant fuel hoses on from the tank to the metal fuel line on the frame rail. Then a new hose between the frame rail and the fuel line that goes around the bottom of the engine to the pump. Add a clear sided fuel filter somewhere. Fram G2 from Walmart fits perfect. Buy 3 or 4 and carry the spares in the glove box with the tools needed to swap them in. Then just drive until the fuel pump goes.
Or, plan a few weeks of down time for the truck. Spray penetrating oil on the fuel tank hanger strap bolts a few days in advance. Drop the tank, take it to a radiator shop to have them "tank" it. They will probably offer some kind of coating they can apply. If not, buy an ethanol friendly coating you can apply and put that on before you hang it back under the truck with a new ethanol compliant hose attached.
I think Then and Now is the name of the place selling the proper fuel pump rebuild kits. Get one of those installed at the same time and all should be good.
I really hate the E fuels. Unfortunately Maine doesn't sell non ethanol gas. Is there an additive that will kill the ethanol? I don't know if the previous owner changed out the fuel system for ethanol or not.
Look at the hoses. If the lettering is very faded or white. The ethanol will probably eat it. If the lettering is green then it is modern fuel compatible.
great info. thanks. I'll post what I findQuote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
Wish I could get ethanol free gas locally:confused:
Both of my historical military vehicles have had the fuel systems overhauled with modern ethanol compatible parts.
But that's not even enough if they aren't driven frequently.
Early on, I had the carburetor bowl on my CJ3B corrode up during winter storage from untreated E10.
It had a thick white deposit in the bowl and was pitted almost through.:mad:
I now have been adding Stabil 360 to the E10 used in the M715 since it's restoration, and of course the 3B gets it to now.
They both sit undriven 6 months out of the year, due to road salt and now that brine they put down( which is worse)
here is a website for stations by state that sell non-e fuels.
https://www.pure-gas.org
Their phone app is quite handy for traveling.Quote:
Originally Posted by bmac6026
That app is great for finding it but the prices vary tremendously.
There is a gas station/travel shopping center chain called Buckee's in Texas and now other points east. The one in my town is a little baby Buckee's with only 28 pumps and normal fuel. They have a mega store 26 miles away in Bastrop that sells ethanol free 90 octane for about $.20 more per gallon than ethanol mix 87 octane. That is a great deal since it is cheaper than the ethanol mix premium by a good bit even.
Colton was outside of Dallas a few weeks ago and stopped at a Buckee's to get ethanol free and it was $1.00 per gallon more than ethanol mix premium. Same company crazy price difference. Another store 35 miles in the other direction claims on the Puregas app to have ethanol free but it is 87 octane and $.50 more per gallon than premium mix.
Basically, don't rely on that app if you have to put ethanol free in to continue your journey. Unless you can call or some other way verify what octane it is and what price it is. Plus, if they actually have any that day.
Oh, both my ancient BMW 525 Touring and Jennifer's old Outback get 10-15% better mileage with the ethanol free and run so much better since they were made before the mix was required by law.
Of course they run better. The 10% ethanol in the mix gas has less energy than the gas it replaced. So a gallon of ethanol mix doesn't have as much energy as the gasoline it replaced. Therefore, ethanol mix gets fewer mpg's than pure gasoline.
Science baby. It's what makes the world run.
Alcohol has about 55% the btu output of gasoline...so Kwai is exactly correct...the higher percentage of alcohol, the more power you take away from the gasoline.
This got me thinking that someone likely has put together a calculator to show some of the costs/benefits of ethanol (e85) vs. gas, and lo and behold, here you go: http://www.yellowhose.com/e85_calc.html
What this does not calculate is the detrimental costs of ethanol, and on and on...nor does this calculator allow you to select different octanes (e10, others) to determine how each stacks against the other.
If ethanol production wasn't subsidized and mandated to be used in gasoline, it wouldn't be used at all.
To your point Kwai...
'Ethanol’s lower energy density leads to worse gas mileage, which is why using E85 (E85 is 85 percent ethanol) in cars with a fuel system that accommodate it is usually a bad idea. The math carries to E10, which has up to 10 percent ethanol. A gallon of E10 has 96.7 percent of the energy in one gallon of gasoline, according to the DOE’s Alternative Fuels Data Center.' - (taken from https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/1...worse-ethanol/)
My 2000 grand cherokee (V8) gets more than 10-15% lower mpg (18) with ethanol than it does with pure gasoline (21).
I think that 3.3% drop in energy is a bit low.
I know this thread started out as a way to make a 50 year old truck work on todays fuel mix. But, anytime we can include science, math and physics. Plus a good helping of regional politics in a thread. We all win.
meh. Go diesel.
Exactly! This is YOUR tax money supporting something detrimental to YOUR vehicle and YOU have to buy the detrimental fuel that YOU are subsidizing to then ruin YOUR fuel system....Quote:
Originally Posted by kwai
We are not all stupid...but there are too many that are.
I wanted to let this thread run a while before making a comment. Fortunately, I have not had a problem with the gas fouling the carburetor in my M715 or my Corvair. But I will not use anything but ethanol free gas in my small engines, generator, lawnmower, chainsaw etc.
I think more than anything else, I have been lucky. I have had problems with the push lawnmower getting slimy in the carburetor bowl.
As others have noted, I seem to get better gas mileage when I use ethanol free gasoline. What I do for my generator is to buy 5 gallons of ethanol free gas, put Sta-Bil in it and keep it for no longer than a year. If I have not used it, it goes into the car and the mileage goes up!
For the little that we drive these vehicles, it really isn't all that much more expensive. Typically, we have 87 or 89 ethanol free gas available here. I live near the Atlantic Ocean and we have a lot of boats here, hence the proliferation of ethanol free gas.
Now for the Corvair, it has 100LL in it right now. It likes that!
I didn't mention 100LL earlier because of the possible tax issues involved. But, yes it does wake up an engine. Smells so wonderful out the exhaust pipe too.
For all your 100LL needs...
http://www.100ll.com/
Two local airports have 100LL for $3.75. Our airport has always been expensive; $5.29. So, “Road Trip” (or is it “Air Trip?) comes to mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by ColoradoSpringsRob
Absolutely correct :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
As does gasoline with ethanol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
On a recent motorcycle trip from here to Montana, I had no problems locating booze-free gas with that app: when my fuel light went on, I'd pull over in the next town, open the app, go to the nearest station with ethanol-free. Not one problem with supply, and the return trip was on the first weekend of Sturgis, when seemingly everybody & their brother was on the road.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman