1967 M715 question

Hey everyone, this is my first post and I have a question about M715’s. I have an opportunity to buy a 1967 M715 and I just want to get an idea of what I’m getting into. I do all the work on my own vehicles, but I wouldn’t say I’m incredibly mechanically knowledgeable. Everything I’ve learned has been through forums, YouTube, google, and Haynes manuals. The vehicles I’ve worked on were a 1990 Jeep Wrangler 4.2, 1990 Ford Bronco 5.8, and my current truck 1994 Ford F-150 4.9. I have almost no electrical knowledge besides installing a trailer light plug to my truck, fixing damaged wires, and changing battery cables. Things I’ve done are valve cover gasket, rear main seal, oil pan gasket, side panel gasket, new radiator, flush cooling system, intake manifold gasket, drum brakes, rotors, and brake pads.

So with all of that said, I was considering buying a 1967 M715. Would I be in over my head as far as maintenance or things that it may need done? It has some rust on the body so I might need to buy a little welder and learn how to fix that. The guy said it has the original engine and trans, but says the engine needs a new distributor to run. He said the engine is a 238 tornado i6. After reading on this forum for a bit I asked him if it was the original 24v system or the 12v, he said 12v. The 24v/12v thing has me slightly confused as to what distributor I would even need. I’m not trying to restore it to mint condition, but would like to cruise around on trails with it. Thanks

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lowcountry

I have almost no electrical knowledge besides installing a trailer light plug to my truck, fixing damaged wires, and changing battery cables. Things I’ve done are valve cover gasket, rear main seal, oil pan gasket, side panel gasket, new radiator, flush cooling system, intake manifold gasket, drum brakes, rotors, and brake pads.

---

^ You'll be doing a lot more of that. especially brakes and fixing damaged wires.

You have a solid base of mechanical experience. Basic skills... and these trucks are pretty basic.
The electrical system is pretty straight forward. The wires are numbered instead of color coded. That threw me for a loop at first but it is a much better system.

The online maintenance manuals linked at the top of the page are a necessity with a stock truck. And the members here are ready to help.

Ok, thanks for the reply. Yeah I love the look of these trucks and I’m willing to learn what I need to in order to have it running good. Should I be concerned that it’s not the original 24v system or is that not much of a problem?

12 volt or 24 volt isn't really as important as condition of the wires themselves and how it was converted to 12v if it was converted.

My truck was converted by a fire department. They just ran new wires and put in new switches after most of the time cutting the original wires. It was a mess. I have seen others that swapping alternators along with all the bulbs and the starter motor have you back at 24 volts once the battery leads are switched over.

See what you find and take each one individually.

You have a good knowledge base and the army manuals were written for someone with a 5th grade education so they are laid out in a straight forward manor. There are three manuals that have a bunch of numbers but it's the last set that everyone calls them by. The -10 manual is the operators manual. (Think of it as the manual that comes with your car.) This will tell you how everything works and what maintenance things you the driver is responsible for. The -20 manual is the organizational maintenance manual. This was the book that told the unit mechanics what they could fix and how to fix it. Also gives good trouble shooting steps to help figure out the problem. The -34 is the direct support maintenance manual. These were the folks further back in the chain of command that did all the heaving lifting for the repair of the truck. This manual covers everything from engine removal and rebuild to rebuild of the axles and transmission etc. If you decide to get the truck download the manuals you won't go wrong.

As for the 12/24 volt thing. You'll just have to get the truck and try to figure out what the previous owners did to muck everything up. But then again that's half the fun of owning an Historic Military Vehicle. Welcome to the OD club. We are here to help if you have questions.

When we built my truck, we removed all the wiring and started over with an aftermarket wiring harness and the GM one-wire alternator that was on the 230 we swapped in. Add 12V gauges, bulbs, and the starter on the replacement engine, and we were done.

Ok, thanks for the replies. I went and checked it out today and decided to buy it. The only problem is there’s an issue with the title that will need to be worked out. I’ll be sure to post pics once I pick it up and start working on it!

Welcome:)
We love pictures and don't hesitate to ask more questions.
Start studying the online manuals above;)

Thanks, I was really glad to see a forum dedicated to M715 because I know I’ll have a ton of questions. I’ll go ahead and get to reading. I’ll be sure to post a lot of pictures. Here are the pictures the guy originally sent me.

Welcome aboard!

Thanks, so what’s everyone’s thoughts on keeping the original trans and engine in for daily driving and trail riding? If the engine and trans are decent I’d like to just do that, but worst case if I did swap out the engine with a SB Chevy could I still keep the original trans and get by? I’ve been doing some reading and it seems most people are saying the gearing isn’t really meant for anything over 45 or so?

Not to scare you... as I think the failure rate isn't a high % but people speaking about it is....

The NP200 original T-case "historically" does not take daily driving at higher speeds well. (It overheats in some cases).

The engine while up to the task, if daily driven regularly requires some maintenance and upkeep... of which spare parts can be difficult/problematic to find especially locally and in a pinch. (water/fuel pumps, carbs, generators, starters, distributors, etc etc etc).

Most approach it as a "run it until a problem arises" then address...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by venominjected

Not to scare you... as I think the failure rate isn't a high % but people speaking about it is....

The NP200 original T-case "historically" does not take daily driving at higher speeds well. (It overheats in some cases).

The engine while up to the task, if daily driven regularly requires some maintenance and upkeep... of which spare parts can be difficult/problematic to find especially locally and in a pinch. (water/fuel pumps, carbs, generators, starters, distributors, etc etc etc).

Most approach it as a "run it until a problem arises" then address...

---

Ok, so how difficult would it be for me to swap in a NP205? If you see my first post you’ll see I have very limited experience...Hopefully I’m not in over my head, I’m willing to buy a welder and learn to weld. I know a guy that I could possibly bring it to for the welding, but I know after what I spend with him I’d probably be able to buy a welder at that point...

Nice truck! Looks like it's already had some work done. AND you have the top bows and frame! hardest body parts to find are top bows and frames and a straight bed.
You have the fender flares too?

The 205 swap is a job. I've done a lot of swaps in different vehicles. I'm a half-@ssed decent welder. I just did a 205 swap in mine and it was work. They mount differently so you have to fab new mounts and keep the correctly geometry for the driveshafts and jackshaft from the transmission.

The 205 swap also brings about other swaps. Your parking brake is on the NP200. If you swap a 205 in you have to either..
1) Run without a parking brake, which might make it hard to get it inspected, depends on how well you know the inspector.
2) Swap in newer axles that have the parking brakes on them.
3) Swap the 200 parking brake to the 205.
I listed those in order of expense.
If you keep it under 50ish MPH the NP200 will be okay. You get used to being the slow one and avoiding interstates...

I had planned on daily driving mine when I got it. Nope. It didn't take long for the stock engine to peter out on me. It wasn't in the best shape when I got it. It's a good engine and would be good for daily use as long as it's maintained and in good shape.

I'd get it running and see how she performs, then go from there. A lot of the parts for it are hard to come by. I think you mentioned it needed a distributor.

I run mine with the stock drivetrain and rather enjoy it, but I do that aware of certain limitations.

First, 45 indicated is Vne, except for very short periods of time. I took a 360-mile road trip last summer with zero t-case problems, but I had to get creative at times in order to stay off the interstate. I also run Amsoil 85-140 oil. Second, I won't go to the mountains on a summer weekend because I don't want hold up traffic climbing hills.

As long as I'm mindful of these limitations, I enjoy driving the stock configuration-- it's the way it felt, sounded, drove in '67.

If you have access to a machinist buddies.... an NP200/205 brake conversion is simple (cost me a case of beer)

(Have to mill in the NP205 bearing housing bores into the NP200 rear retainer plate.)

Ok, so the plan will be to try to get it up and running while keeping it stock as long as the engine doesn’t need a serious amount of work. The one thing you have me thinking about is parts availability and price so if the engine isn’t up to par I’ll put in a SB Chevy which seems like it’d be the easiest swap (even though I have no knowledge of installing a new engine) along with a NP205 and then possibly a new trans?

Here are a few pics

More pics

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Von

Nice truck! Looks like it's already had some work done. AND you have the top bows and frame! hardest body parts to find are top bows and frames and a straight bed.
You have the fender flares too?

The 205 swap is a job. I've done a lot of swaps in different vehicles. I'm a half-@ssed decent welder. I just did a 205 swap in mine and it was work. They mount differently so you have to fab new mounts and keep the correctly geometry for the driveshafts and jackshaft from the transmission.

The 205 swap also brings about other swaps. Your parking brake is on the NP200. If you swap a 205 in you have to either..
1) Run without a parking brake, which might make it hard to get it inspected, depends on how well you know the inspector.
2) Swap in newer axles that have the parking brakes on them.
3) Swap the 200 parking brake to the 205.
I listed those in order of expense.
If you keep it under 50ish MPH the NP200 will be okay. You get used to being the slow one and avoiding interstates...

I had planned on daily driving mine when I got it. Nope. It didn't take long for the stock engine to peter out on me. It wasn't in the best shape when I got it. It's a good engine and would be good for daily use as long as it's maintained and in good shape.

I'd get it running and see how she performs, then go from there. A lot of the parts for it are hard to come by. I think you mentioned it needed a distributor.

---

Yeah that sounds like a hell of a job, I wonder if I can pull that off. Yeah I also have the fender flares and the brush guard

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by venominjected

If you have access to a machinist buddies.... an NP200/205 brake conversion is simple (cost me a case of beer)

(Have to mill in the NP205 bearing housing bores into the NP200 rear retainer plate.)

---

Yeah I think I need to find some machinist buddies haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nailhead

I run mine with the stock drivetrain and rather enjoy it, but I do that aware of certain limitations.

First, 45 indicated is Vne, except for very short periods of time. I took a 360-mile road trip last summer with zero t-case problems, but I had to get creative at times in order to stay off the interstate. I also run Amsoil 85-140 oil. Second, I won't go to the mountains on a summer weekend because I don't want hold up traffic climbing hills.

As long as I'm mindful of these limitations, I enjoy driving the stock configuration-- it's the way it felt, sounded, drove in '67.

---

Wow yeah a 360 mile road trip in a stock M715 is something. I guess one plus for around here where I live is it’s completely flat as far as the eye can see, but the hills start showing up the further Northwest you go and I did plan to take it up that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lowcountry

Wow yeah a 360 mile road trip in a stock M715 is something. I guess one plus for around here where I live is it’s completely flat as far as the eye can see, but the hills start showing up the further Northwest you go and I did plan to take it up that way.

---

Yeah, and you're at low elevation so you'll have more power. I think you'll find the stock engine in your truck will be surprisingly...adequate for daily driving. If you've ever driven an FJ40, a 715 with its 230 will be very familiar.

360 miles is a drop in the bucket: Don Cavey drove his coast to coast, IIRC.

Wow coast to coast?! That’s a trip...yeah I think you’re right about the stock engine. I’m going to check the compression on it when I get some time off next week and see how it’s looking. One problem I can see right out in the open is the wiring is a birds nest of a mess, so I’ll post some pics and see what y’all think. Also the bed that came with it is in pretty bad shape and looks like it’ll need quite a bit of work to save it. I’ll post more detailed pics of it tmrw as well. I was thinking about putting on a utility bed or one of those aluminum beds that have the fold down sides you see on those Home Depot trucks you can rent. I’d like to save the bed if possible though because I want it to look original, but it would definitely need an all new floor and some work on the sides.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nailhead

Yeah, and you're at low elevation so you'll have more power. I think you'll find the stock engine in your truck will be surprisingly...adequate for daily driving. If you've ever driven an FJ40, a 715 with its 230 will be very familiar.

360 miles is a drop in the bucket: Don Cavey drove his coast to coast, IIRC.

---

I haven't driven my present M-715 coast to coast. But... in the army, I put thousands and thousands of miles on the trucks when they were only about two years old.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Don Cavey

I haven't driven my present M-715 coast to coast. But... in the army, I put thousands and thousands of miles on the trucks when they were only about two years old.

---

I stand corrected, Don. I wonder where I got that idea.

Might be the picture of the speedo with my truck going about 80-MPH in Germany :rolleyes:

We had a member from New Jersey that drove to Seattle pulling a M101. Then back again one summer several years ago.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lowcountry

Yeah that sounds like a hell of a job, I wonder if I can pull that off. Yeah I also have the fender flares and the brush guard

---

Like Venominjected said, the brake hardware swap isn't that complicated.
I think I paid 150ish for the 32 spline flange and a new yoke. And 60 to have the 200 bearing retainer milled to fit the 205. And had the new flange milled, drilled and tapped for the brake drum to mount on... Don't remember what that was (not a lot) because they were doing a lot of other machine work for the engine I was building.
There isn't a complete "how to" thread on doing it and that makes it a lot harder than it should be.

Once you get familiar with your truck and get more wrenching experience you'll be up to the job.

I figured cost of the divorced 205 into my ranking. They're starting to get rare.
Might be cheaper and easier to find an old wrecked Blazer or GM pickup with a married 205 or 208 and use the trans and transfer case for it, if you go with a 350 swap.

Unlimited options with these things...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nailhead

I stand corrected, Don. I wonder where I got that idea.

---

I think you were thinking of randygar. He drove from Eureka CA to NJ. He has some of his trip here on the zone and a blog on it.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour..._kVBj90EI1GJfy

I drove over 600 miles to Kentucky in mine...then wheeled it for several days and drove over 600 home to northern Wisconsin...more than enough for a stock drivetrain truck...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nailhead

When we built my truck, we removed all the wiring and started over with an aftermarket wiring harness and the GM one-wire alternator that was on the 230 we swapped in. Add 12V gauges, bulbs, and the starter on the replacement engine, and we were done.

---

I am in need of an after market wiring harness for my 67 M715 and was wondering where you located one for yours? I want to install new wiring, with a fuse block. It had been converted to a 12V system by PO. Thanks!

I used Painless Performance 10102 - Painless Performance 21-Circuit Universal Harness. Everything is included, directions are fantastic, and it worked out very well.

I just took a look. Do you think the fuse block would work well mounted on the passenger side of the firewall? With the addition of the E brake and everything else under the drivers side, I have run low on real estate for a fuse block of that size. I was going to wire my own harness using marine tinned wire, and two fuse blocks, one per side, but the ease of the painless kit looks good. Just wondering if it would reach everything mounted behind the glove box area.

Everything would easily reach, plenty of extra length on all the wires. I guess the only thing that they do not include is the wire loom. All the wires are color coded and ink jetted with labels (some require a magnifying glass to see) and I followed it step by step. Everything worked as expected first time around. Couldn't have been more pleased with this kit.

Al,
Before you mount the fuse panel to the firewall on the passenger side. Look at the defrost duct mounting area. Space is kind of low over there is my point.

I flipped my glove box upside down to gain a little bit of room. Maybe even shorten the glove box a few inches might help you.

Based on the Painless systems I have installed in other vehicles. I have nothing but praise for their products.