M715 on Barrett Jackson

Been a while since I've posted due to my green monster being parked waiting for time but I thought I'd toss a question out.

Yesterday I saw a gussied-up M715 on Barrett Jackson go for $ 20,500 plus the buyer's premium so about $ 22,550 in actual costs. Here's a link to it with photos https://azure.barrett-jackson.com/Ev...EP-M715-218355

Original engine...looks like a frame off restoration with a quality paint job. Definitely more into the resto than they got. Mostly original with a few glitches but not any major changes to the bones apparent.

But...the question is, does this hint that people might actually be catching on to these and the market finally showing some interest? Even crap like 1972 mavericks seem to be starting to bring some bucks but until now, the M715 market has been remarkably flat--

It kind of begs the question now as to whether to make it more drivable as per my original plans (like an sbc replacing the "tornado") or whether the wise man now leaves it as stock as possible because the market is changing. Also if throwing more money into the green hole might eventually give a better return in a couple of years.

They also talked up the Tornado engine (without showing it like 99.9% of other sale cars) as though it might be something more than a "not so great" design--implying that the resto market on those might be rising.

Anyway, just curious if you folks see the market changing from those who simply love the old military beasts to some sort of broader collector interest--opinions?

The tornado engine isn't so bad if you don't drive it like an 18 yo private. Remember, the governor was added because it was being driven by 18 yo privates. Just ask Don. He has the speedo pictures to prove it.

As for as value of restoration versus resto-mod, it depends on what the buyer is looking for. Personally, I think a well thought out resto-mod is more valuable.

Not sure about resto-mod truck values, but as far as the BJ truck and what it sold for, I think it would have went higher if it were more original such as paint, interior, and possibly wheels and tires.

IMHO, these trucks are obscure enough that their values will be hard pressed to gather much upward momentum without exposure in a popular movie, or something similar. One out of 20 who ask me about my truck have any idea: 1. That it's not a Dodge. 2. That it's only 50 years old. 3. That it's not some sort of homebuilt improv build, but an actual factory-made military vehicle manufactured by a major(ish) auto company.

The obscurity of M7XX's continues to surprise me, and will continue to be the major factor impeding FJ40-style value increases, IMHO.

The highest value to date was a full Resto-Mod M715. Barrett Jackson last year... $32,000 for an LS-swap, modern axle, 4 wheel disc, PS, PB.

[I mean this in the best way possible] My guess is the "owners who want it stock" are starting to actually shed their OEM's.... New owners want the vehicle history.. but want to drive it with modern comforts.

Same thing happened to 50's cars where they fell flat when original OEM spec'd car owners started dieing off/selling their collections....

Stock M715's in appearance and powertrain have a 11-17k track run on Barret and Mecum...

My stock appearing but axle swapped, fuel tank relocated, power 4 wheel disc, modern axle, power steering, hydroboosted brakes, cummins turbo diesel, 5 speed OD manual I'd expect to bring $22-30k+ at auction. [powdercoated frame, repainted OD etc].

OEM trends just are NOT bringing that kind of money... [whatever side of the fence your on... selling prices are selling prices and are indicative of demand] Too many younger guys don't want to buy manual brakes, manual steering with a constant upkeep motor. Older buyers who want the nolstagia of OEM are simply no longer buying but shedding their vehicles. (67+ years of age is when owners start shedding their collections... not buying more) [Hemmings]

Good news! I have 23 more accumulation years!!

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Originally Posted by venominjected

The highest value to date was a full Resto-Mod M715. Barrett Jackson last year... $32,000 for an LS-swap, modern axle, 4 wheel disc, PS, PB.

[I mean this in the best way possible] My guess is the "owners who want it stock" are starting to actually shed their OEM's.... New owners want the vehicle history.. but want to drive it with modern comforts.

Same thing happened to 50's cars where they fell flat when original OEM spec'd car owners started dieing off/selling their collections....

Stock M715's in appearance and powertrain have a 11-17k track run on Barret and Mecum...

My stock appearing but axle swapped, fuel tank relocated, power 4 wheel disc, modern axle, power steering, hydroboosted brakes, cummins turbo diesel, 5 speed OD manual I'd expect to bring $22-30k+ at auction. [powdercoated frame, repainted OD etc].

OEM trends just are NOT bringing that kind of money... [whatever side of the fence your on... selling prices are selling prices and are indicative of demand] Too many younger guys don't want to buy manual brakes, manual steering with a constant upkeep motor. Older buyers who want the nolstagia of OEM are simply no longer buying but shedding their vehicles. (67+ years of age is when owners start shedding their collections... not buying more) [Hemmings]

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I think the one you talking about was sold at Mecum's in Dallas.?

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Originally Posted by kwai

The tornado engine isn't so bad if you don't drive it like an 18 yo private. Remember, the governor was added because it was being driven by 18 yo privates. Just ask Don. He has the speedo pictures to prove it.

As for as value of restoration versus resto-mod, it depends on what the buyer is looking for. Personally, I think a well thought out resto-mod is more valuable.

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As to driving the these trucks hard, I must admit that I may be "somewhat" guilty. But, I was 22 and a SP-5 at the time!:rolleyes:
1970, Neu Ulm Germany. I actually stumbled upon the fact that the trucks had a governor when we went to Bremerhaven to off load new trucks from the ship and drive them to Bavaria. It became obvious that "something" was different with these new trucks. Hmmm, GI proofing!!!

Some of the vehicles were also M-757 Pershing 1A vehicles (in which NONE of the diesel fired heaters worked).

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Originally Posted by bmac6026

I think the one you talking about was sold at Mecum's in Dallas.?

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Good catch... yes Mecum

September 2015 so older than I thought... $32,000 + buyers fee's. (Barrett Jackson updates their sites to include buyers fees after hammer drop.

The truck sold for 20,500... but with buyers fees was 22,5xx whatever.

https://cdn1.mecum.com/auctions/da09...?1441980055000

I have no comment on the price on either truck. I like stock trucks

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Originally Posted by venominjected

Older buyers who want the nolstagia of OEM are simply no longer buying but shedding their vehicles. (67+ years of age is when owners start shedding their collections... not buying more) [Hemmings]

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Very true about vehicles and collectibles as a whole. We are shedding things for a few reasons; our farm land has been contracted by a developer and even if that was not happening, its getting too hard to maintain and drive the older vehicles. We also want to downsize and you just can't find a house that has doors and garages to accept these trucks.

At the big Aberdeen military truck show every year the place is full of us grey hairs. No and I mean no younger folks are there. Many hobbies are dying. Even old clubs like the Legion and VFW are closing here because not enough members to keep it up. No offense to the younger folks here but if it isn't on a phone, its isn't!

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Originally Posted by rboltz

At the big Aberdeen military truck show every year the place is full of us grey hairs. No and I mean no younger folks are there. Many hobbies are dying. No offense to the younger folks here but if it isn't on a phone, its isn't!

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This isn't strictly limited to classic OEM configured army vehicles... classic car industry as a whole is going this way.... but even bigger picture....

Harley Davidson - has failed to bring in their younger riders (average age is now knocking on 49 years old) [Yup from 42.1 in 1999]

Hunting - Up until recently it was on a major decline but has leveled off in Registrations/New Hunter Certs [fishing has remained steady surprisingly]

Trades - Majority of journeymen across the spectrum of trades is a grey hair... My guess is the simple demand and then consequent salary will eventually close up this gap.... In the mean time expect a simple plumbing visit to be $200+ for 20 min - hour of service.

Only thing constant is change

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Originally Posted by venominjected

The highest value to date was a full Resto-Mod M715. Barrett Jackson last year... $32,000 for an LS-swap, modern axle, 4 wheel disc, PS, PB.

[I mean this in the best way possible] My guess is the "owners who want it stock" are starting to actually shed their OEM's.... New owners want the vehicle history.. but want to drive it with modern comforts.

Same thing happened to 50's cars where they fell flat when original OEM spec'd car owners started dieing off/selling their collections....

Stock M715's in appearance and powertrain have a 11-17k track run on Barret and Mecum...

My stock appearing but axle swapped, fuel tank relocated, power 4 wheel disc, modern axle, power steering, hydroboosted brakes, cummins turbo diesel, 5 speed OD manual I'd expect to bring $22-30k+ at auction. [powdercoated frame, repainted OD etc].

OEM trends just are NOT bringing that kind of money... [whatever side of the fence your on... selling prices are selling prices and are indicative of demand] Too many younger guys don't want to buy manual brakes, manual steering with a constant upkeep motor. Older buyers who want the nolstagia of OEM are simply no longer buying but shedding their vehicles. (67+ years of age is when owners start shedding their collections... not buying more) [Hemmings]

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Lots of stuff going on here. This is something I have noticed for years. One generation likes stuff the way it was and the next wants it their way.

Baby boomers wanted muscle cars with a little cam and a set of torque thrust mags, now everyone wants a pro-touring machine with AC and a quiet LS turbo swap.

Everything evolves ...

As for our M715s they sure do seem to be a little more ... popular when they are restified with modern power and newer axles, brakes and such.
The guys who are building them now are simply not emotionally tied to them as stock vehicles, hence all the grey hairs at the military events.

Another issues is acceptance, I have personally been on the receiving end of many "you should have left it stock" lectures from older gentlemen.
The subsequent generations who want to fool around with stuff are going to avoid the places where those lectures are going to occur. Why would I bring my truck to a military show where everything is restored originals when all I get is harassed for my ride?

I go to my fair share of events like that but I never bring my 715.

I'm going to add my $0.02 worth here. The M715 that was posted at the begging of this thread as well as the one pictured from 2015 that sold at BJ are modified. Custom paint job, tires etc. Which is why I think they went for big bucks at the shows because the buyer (most of the one at BJ IMHO) have more money than brains. Therefore they are willing to pay for something that they don't really know what it is. They don't see an "Army" truck. They see a mean looking off road rig.

The stock vrs modify question as for resale is based on your buyer. I think because of smaller number of M715s made vrs M37s or WC of WWII produced makes it a little more valuable in original stock configuration than a modified truck. Many of these trucks were fitted with SBC motors post military career, and therefore the stock trucks are fewer and harder to find making them IMHO worth more in the collectors market.

But, your mileage may vary and bottom line is the truck is worth what the buyer is willing to pay.

I've been sitting back letting this topic develop since I posted initially and ruminating on the points that hit home with me, and the one that stands out is the stock vs. restomod question. I stand by my contention that the M7XX's relative obscurity dents its market value, but after reading through this thread, I don't think it's the factor I initially thought it was.

I like driving my M715 in its essentially stock form. I like time capsules, things that convey the sensations of their time and purpose. Years ago when I lived in
Wyoming, a rancher gave me a 1947 Case VAC tractor because I wanted to restore it. I had no actual use for it, but I liked it and wanted to run it in the town parade or whatever just to get the sensation, maybe mow some grass with it. History comes alive through machines. Same with my M715: an old ride I could smell gear oil and hear gear whine in, for example. Yeah, I've modified the brakes and fuel delivery systems to adapt to the availability of parts and modern fuel characteristics, but those mods don't dilute the sensation of driving an old, slow, noisy, tough truck, in my opinion.

Put PS, PB, A/C, and all the other modern accouterments in it, and I might as well by driving my '08 Dodge-- the sensation that I'm sharing an experience my grandparents knew is gone. Why bother at that point? I'm guessing a pilot/owner of an Stearman or J3 would empathize; it's all about the sounds, smells, and muscular involvement. Anyway, enough of that.

I'm an anomaly to a certain extent, I guess: I fought my buddy Harry (with whom I built this truck, and from whom I bought it) tooth-&-nail to retain the stock drivetrain because that M715 ain't really an M715 without it. The wheels too-- I had a heluva time with flat tires for a while, and considered getting some tubeless wheels from Stockton, but the look doesn't fit the truck, IMHO.

My hair isn't fully gray and I only remember the Vietnam War from the evening news, but I just love driving slowly, noisily around in a truck that few want and fewer can identify.

My thoughts exactly Nailhead!! I Want to drive it the way it was made to be driven!

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Originally Posted by kyken

My thoughts exactly Nailhead!! I Want to drive it the way it was made to be driven!

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And unfortunately for both Nailhead and Kyken... while they have their opinions (and their respectfully yours)..... the market buying population as a whole is going in the opposite direction....

And in Nailheads comment.... again no disrespect meant... but if you were even 5-10 year old child during the Vietnam war... it puts you into the population pool of buyers that is no longer interested in buying collector vehicles... but selling them. (Again I mean this all in generalities and from a large sample size so please take that as no disrepect). Target buyer in the collector car market is 43-50 yrs old male... ( Born 1968-1975) You will soon see Fox Body mustangs, IROC Camaro's etc from mid 80's to early 90's command more value in an OEM form... not our trucks..... because that's what THEIR memories there trying to recapture were about... Very few buyers in larger $$$ vehicles have any "memories" to recapture with an M715. (If you remember the sounds of an 1967 M715 as a 20 year old trying to recapture your youth.. that puts you at 71 years of age.... which is no longer in the buying pool.)

Museum quality restores of OEM M715's are around $13-17,000 only unfortunately.

While inkling guy with restomod hardcore off road truck brings $22-$32,000. Market forces drive product and consumer direction... unfortunately it's just not a direction that will be popular among the purists on this website.


I'm attempting to do both with mine.... from 10 feet away from the side.. you would have no idea that it is even a restomod... you would think "old army truck"

Following this thread... and then decided not to worry about it. I don't plan on selling mine.
My nephew's kid has talked me into giving it to him when I'm too old to drive it... his words. he thinks that'll be when he's 16 (8 years from now). I told him I would decide when that was and only IF I see that he can take care of his stuff and won't be an idiot and tear it up. He said "I won't be like Josh and Brayden." (my stepson's)

We'll see... it may end up being my wife's problem after I'm gone.

I WOULD like to see the price of M37s go down... just cuz I want one.

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Originally Posted by Von

Following this thread... and then decided not to worry about it. I don't plan on selling mine.

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Bingo... if your in the car hobby to make money.. the M715 isn't for you anyhow... (simply not enough buyer$ even know what it is)

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Originally Posted by Von

Following this thread... and then decided not to worry about it. I don't plan on selling mine.

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Von, couldn't agree more.

I plan on keeping mine till the bitter end too.

My rig is rough and not pretty, the stuff I did to it is for me to enjoy.
Some people like stock and some want it wildly modified.
Not trying to impress anyone but me.

Paul

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Originally Posted by venominjected

I'm attempting to do both with mine.... from 10 feet away from the side.. you would have no idea that it is even a restomod... you would think "old army truck"

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Most guys assume mine is stock(ish).
I like the used, slightly shabby original look with a little more modern equipment underneath.

When I tell them what it originally came with most applaud my changes.
In fact most are surprised that it didn't have a diesel originally :/

Paul

I really don't think there are any "purists" on this site. Zoners seem to be able to appreciate the M715 done as a full resto, full resto-mod and everywhere in between.

The one characteristic that sets zoners apart from other classic car groups is that we all like building trucks and appreciate the work that goes into the build whether it is a full resto or a blown and lifted mud truck.

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Originally Posted by kwai

I really don't think there are any "purists" on this site. Zoners seem to be able to appreciate the M715 done as a full resto, full resto-mod and everywhere in between.

The one characteristic that sets zoners apart from other classic car groups is that we all like building trucks and appreciate the work that goes into the build whether it is a full resto or a blown and lifted mud truck.

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Nailed it perfectly.... can't say I've ever seen a zoner negatively comment from a purists to full mod or vice versa...

A benefit from Jon running a tight ship and the small knit family feeling of the probably only 15,000ish 715 community.... (I figure maybe half of 715's are stateside and still standing?)

2500 members here on the zone ever... with I think 250ish active

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Originally Posted by venominjected

And unfortunately for both Nailhead and Kyken... while they have their opinions (and their respectfully yours)..... the market buying population as a whole is going in the opposite direction....



And in Nailheads comment.... again no disrespect meant... but if you were even 5-10 year old child during the Vietnam war... it puts you into the population pool of buyers that is no longer interested in buying collector vehicles... but selling them. (Again I mean this all in generalities and from a large sample size so please take that as no disrepect). Target buyer in the collector car market is 43-50 yrs old male... ( Born 1968-1975) You will soon see Fox Body mustangs, IROC Camaro's etc from mid 80's to early 90's command more value in an OEM form... not our trucks..... because that's what THEIR memories there trying to recapture were about... Very few buyers in larger $$$ vehicles have any "memories" to recapture with an M715. (If you remember the sounds of an 1967 M715 as a 20 year old trying to recapture your youth.. that puts you at 71 years of age.... which is no longer in the buying pool.)



Museum quality restores of OEM M715's are around $13-17,000 only unfortunately.



While inkling guy with restomod hardcore off road truck brings $22-$32,000. Market forces drive product and consumer direction... unfortunately it's just not a direction that will be popular among the purists on this website.





I'm attempting to do both with mine.... from 10 feet away from the side.. you would have no idea that it is even a restomod... you would think "old army truck"

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Being born in 1975 and having both a 1983 Z28 and a fox body mustang in addition to my M715, I can back this up 100%, lol. Memories are a huge portion of the “old vehicle market”. I appreciate them all though, stock or not!


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I consider myself a purist.:)
But, I wasn't in my younger years.
So I appreciate the thought, work, and craftsmanship that goes into modified vehicles.

I'm glad that the older, purist Dan ended up with my M715 considering that it was in pretty good condition when I found it for sale.
Plus, the unbelievable documents that I found the glove compartment, that had been never removed since they were put in there 51 years ago.

The reward for me is seeing Vietnam Vets look over it, and then start telling the stories of being in country.

I'm not worried about market trends, as I'm probably going to will it to a military museum.

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Originally Posted by venominjected

(If you remember the sounds of an 1967 M715 as a 20 year old trying to recapture your youth.. that puts you at 71 years of age.... which is no longer in the buying pool.)

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Yup, you nailed it again!

I've stood back to see what people had to say since I originally posted and I'm no further in decision making. I prefer stock...except for a cantankerous engine that should get new valve guides and hardened seats which sort of opens a can of worms....

Mine sits--and has for several years while life was in the way. It needs the wheel cylinders replaced and those have been sitting with the truck in the garage waiting on me. It's in great shape as a former FD brush truck but at 51 years old, it's a bit tired like me.

The long sit time had me pondering whether it was best to dive in or pass it on to someone who could actually dive in--I was hoping for a spark that might tip those scales (such as them finally being noticed for the great truck they are) but it looks like I need to focus inward--am *I* going to get the joy from this thing that the time and expense warrant. Do I have enough "love" for the process and truck to make it a "labor of love"...because it's never going to be anything else.

Still need to ponder. It's a tough one.

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Originally Posted by Kozmo

I've stood back to see what people had to say since I originally posted and I'm no further in decision making. I prefer stock...except for a cantankerous engine that should get new valve guides and hardened seats which sort of opens a can of worms....



Mine sits--and has for several years while life was in the way. It needs the wheel cylinders replaced and those have been sitting with the truck in the garage waiting on me. It's in great shape as a former FD brush truck but at 51 years old, it's a bit tired like me.



The long sit time had me pondering whether it was best to dive in or pass it on to someone who could actually dive in--I was hoping for a spark that might tip those scales (such as them finally being noticed for the great truck they are) but it looks like I need to focus inward--am *I* going to get the joy from this thing that the time and expense warrant. Do I have enough "love" for the process and truck to make it a "labor of love"...because it's never going to be anything else.



Still need to ponder. It's a tough one.

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There’s only one persons opinion that matters when it comes to your truck! [emoji851]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

the M715 has a bad rep. in the military vehicle collector community ,but they are a really nice looking truck!

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Originally Posted by bmac6026

the M715 has a bad rep. in the military vehicle collector community ,but they are a really nice looking truck!

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They do?

The Tornado OHC has a bad rep with some (buddy, co-builder, and PO of my truck, for example), but I've never heard anything negative about the general reputation of the truck itself.

Previous to the M715, mil trucks were not based on civilian trucks but were mil only types. The M715 was based oon the Full Size Jeep pickup...with extensive mods of course....

This does not appeal to some who think it is a bad merger of genres...basically...

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Originally Posted by brute4c

Previous to the M715, mil trucks were not based on civilian trucks but were mil only types. The M715 was based oon the Full Size Jeep pickup...with extensive mods of course....

This does not appeal to some who think it is a bad merger of genres...basically...

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That is what I have always heard also.
The bed is heavy duty but the cab forward is not so much. You don't hear much anymore lean into a door or sit on a hood on a 715 then you know..But they are still one of my favorite M-Series trucks.

Them (Jeep) reintroducing the M715 concecpt vehicle (Crew Chief 715) also caused our vehicles to have a VERY large spike in value... (2 entire generations were introduced to the original M715 for the first time in their lives [not everyone is an M-series vehicle nut like we all are])

One more comment on "value" of any of our trucks. Of course value starts with what the buyer wants, supply and the condition but a huge factor is "where it is" and is anyone close that wants it. I was reminded of this again selling my truck and recently listing my M-101A1. My M-101A1 is pristine yet i could not get above $700. Rusted out junkers sold at the same time for $1,400. The reason was no one in the area wanted it so transportation costs become prohibitive. I had calls from buyers that wanted it but were 8-10 hours away and even further. They wanted me to deliver it but I can't. So, they had to consider the retrieval cost. Same for our trucks. I paid $1,000 to have my 715 brought up from Florida so that entered into my buying decision also.