m715 front axle

Okay, here is a really odd ball question, and I am really tired right now, AND on pain meds, so probably isn't the best time to be posting (that was actually more of a warning), but anyway.

I have a set of axles from my m715 that I am no longer going to be using, but, I don't think I will be able to get $500 for them (rear has a locker). Anyway, I was always pondering the idea of doing the 35 spline conversion in the front, but never really got that far, as the axle would have had to been out of my rig for at LEAST three or four months.

Anyway, now that my rig will be no more (don't worry, it wasn't an m715, it was actually just a FSJ) I will have LOTS of time to try it out.

But what I am wondering, is would there be any interest in a 35 spline converted dana 60 front end? It would have an arb or Detroit locker (probably arb, as the price between the two isn't that much), 35 spline inners and outers, but still have the m715 bolt pattern closed knuckle and drum brakes.

Price would be about $1500 or whatever I had into it (about $1500 judging by the conversion article)

The reason I ask is not because I would be looking to make money on it, but simply for the fact that if I did decide to sell it, it would be nice to know ahead of time if it was at least not a total loss.

I have read the conversion article very closely, and have asked questions of competent people (including a couple to the guy who wrote the article--don't know if he is on here or not), I would follow the conversion pretty closely, although there are a few things I would do differently

I would like to do this because I have the time, money, and would really like to get to know drivetrains better. If I did make this, it would probably go in a friend's rig or something, BUT just in case, I would really like to see if there was any interest?

Thanks, Andy

i say no. a modern disc braked d60 with 4.56 gears and a 14bolt with detroit go for 1200-1500 now.... for a set

Sorry Andy, but Lee is correct. No one wants the drums nor the odd bolt pattern. Those of us who want the 35 splines also want to get the open knuckle and common rims and discs to go with it.

As Jeepist Doug says- No matter how much make-up you put on a pig, at the end of the night you still just have a pig.

-B.

I kind of thought that would be the case. I may do it anywy. I think the cost would actually be quite a bit less than that, but it is always better to overshoot.

The only benefit this would have over a standard sixty is the arb and 35 spline outers.

The negative would be keeping the stock wheel pattern, and drum brakes (although I haven't every really had a problem with mine, seems to stop fine even w/ the 44" tires, BUT they do seem big and bulky)

I don't necessarily consider closed knuckle in and of itself a downside because I like having the knuckle enclosed, and it is my THEORY That closed knuckles allow the insides to last longer.

For heavy duty, my preference is closed....also think he 35 splines and locker would be cool.....I kinda like the stock bolt pattern because, like so many things on the truck.....it sets it apart.....I purposely didnt buy a cookie cutter version of most other peoples choice in trucks!!
brute4c

Wearing your underwear on the outside also sets you apart .

you saying buying a chevy or ford million of em made pickemup truck is the way to go???
Dont you remember Grease??
We solve our problems then we throw away conventionality, belongs to yesterday.....

brute4c

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For heavy duty, my preference is preffered

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Uh, Jon, there weren't and pills for me to grab up. What the hell were you TRYING to say, here?

ARE YOU ON DOPE??????????????????????
brute4c

No, I'm just saying that (pun intended) there was no need to reinvent the wheel when eight lug wheels had been used successfully by the big three for a number of years already. It is as if the head of Kaiser got the engineers together and said "Ok, the military wants a truck to use in the worst conditions possible. Our fighting men may depend on these trucks to save their lives. What say we sell them an engine that we have abandoned as unreliable even though we are currently using a much better one in our civvie trucks. While we are at it, let's use a transfer case that will overheat at the mind warping speed of 50mph.Screw the fact that there is a better one in production(np205). Oh yeah, before I forget let's give them a goofy lug pattern in the off chance these trucks end up in civilian hands so that future generations will bemoan the lack of cheap wheels and disc brake hardware.

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Originally Posted by DaveA.

No, I'm just saying that (pun intended) there was no need to reinvent the wheel when eight lug wheels had been used successfully by the big three for a number of years already. It is as if the head of Kaiser got the engineers together and said "Ok, the military wants a truck to use in the worst conditions possible. Our fighting men may depend on these trucks to save their lives. What say we sell them an engine that we have abandoned as unreliable even though we are currently using a much better one in our civvie trucks. While we are at it, let's use a transfer case that will overheat at the mind warping speed of 50mph.Screw the fact that there is a better one in production(np205). Oh yeah, before I forget let's give them a goofy lug pattern in the off chance these trucks end up in civilian hands so that future generations will bemoan the lack of cheap wheels and disc brake hardware.

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I don't think it is like that at all. I don't know what the big deal is with six, but have you ever noticed how many military vehicles used six lugs?
Its not just Americans, either, because look at a unimog, six lugs.

I think they use six because that allows the tires to be changed in the field that much quicker. Personally, I think load bearing is taken care of by using a large radius circle (7.25") instead of a small circle with a lot of lugs.

I honestly think there is some reason to the six lug thing though, crazy as it may sound.

Are you sure they had np205s in 1967? If so, how about 1966?
I am sure, even if they were around at the time, they would have been more $$$, thus making it more cost effective to go np200 (you have other things to worry about going 50+ in a stock vehicle!); once the np200 was already in production, it was unneccessary to switch to a 205 when they became available.

I always thought the stock engine was adequate, too. for its time, it was actually technologically advanced, being an OHC design. The six was also used in civilian vehicles for quite a while. I think people don't like it because it doesn't have hardened valves, and bigger tires or replacement of gears mean the engine no longer has enough leverage to move the behemoth.

i read somewhere that the radius is dirctly proportional to strength. thats why we have WIDE 6 lugs.
its all about money. ill wager it was cheaper for jeep to put the discontinued motor in the truck, along with the freaky axles. closed knuckle is purportedly stronger IN COMPARISON to similar designs. the closed knuckle design was replaced as people wanted disc brakes, and closed knuckles/disc brakes was not an easy or cheap engineering feat. open knuckles were cheaper to use/and adapt. thats what i was told by the helitool guys, who said they talked to some engineers from the time.

There are trucks in the early 50's already that I know of that had our exact bolt pattern....there are probably older ones that have 6 bolt pattern...maybe even ours....never know it could be the precursor to the 8 bolt if you go back far enough...would have been easier to lay out for those in the presliderule days....
As to being different....its a lifelong struggle.....you see I'm:
6'6" tall
left handed
named Jon...with no "H"
wear a size 15 EEEE shoe
own an first year M715 and have a 2nd 67 frame to build up another
cool but different nickname....brute force
founded and run a super cool and free website for people even as wierd as b-

How many people can say half of that......
So I will keep my oddball bolt pattern....it suits me to a tee!!

And if ya think it sucks so much.....why have one......some people like the ugly duckling....others just look and go away....
brute4c

Jon, I'm just saying that Kaiser had already discontinued the 230 by the time these trucks were produced. The 258 in my opinion would be a much better choice given the gear drive cam and iron head for the environment these trucks were meant to operate in. I will grant you that possibly the military had some input on the lug pattern. Please don't misunderstand me, I love these trucks as much as anyone but, there are some design snafus that make you wonder. I love chevrolets as well and there are some quirks there also. I guess my orig. point was that these had to have been designed by committee.

I thought we were talking front axles.....
On the motor....it has always intrigued me that the 230 was chosen...actually a redesigned 230 from the civvy one....both low production engines....Kaiser sure went to alot of work to use a vastly different 230 in this short production run....
I can only conjecture that someone big at Kaiser was behind the 230 in a big way and in 64-65 when they were working up the specs for the M715 contract vehicle entry, the big wheel put a little weight on the 230 for the engine....maybe in an effort to have another platform to use to show up the engine...."It serves the military...it can serve you"....or something like that.....
Remember, this is all theory....but what else makes sense??
brute4c

Speaking of (and getting further off subject) strange stuff, I have always thought that the vehicles in South America have some odd stuff. I saw a fuel injected 250-6 chevy engine on one website that was never available here.

My daily ride is an '89 Range Rover. Land Rover always uses closed knuckles with cv type joints. They work very well and are very durable.

My truck has nearly 200,000 miles on the drive train and the "swivels" are not the problem. Just change the oil yearly and no problems.

Now the Lucas electricals...

And by the way, the RR has 4 wheel discs.