Another change of plans... 6.2 Hyd Clutch?

I have a good running SBC that I have been cleaning up, putting a gasket kit on, painting, new flywheel and clutch, rebuild carb, etc...

Well, my buddy has been really working on me to put a 6.2 in. he's got 2 trucks with 6.2' and a 3rd that the body is junk. Its a runner with a new injection pump. He wants $400 for it. I"m not a diesel guy, but it has my curiousity up.

He's also pushing the 700R4. I think that I would rather use the 465/205 combo that I already have. OD sounds nice, but i like shifting gears. I don't think it will be too bad with the 4:11 axles that will be going in.

I'll need to get a 6.2 flywheel, oil cooler, and get some sort of hydraulic clutch.

What do I need to put the Hydraulic clutch in (besides slave and MC). Can I use the new SBC clutch kit on the 6.2?

I used a brake master cylinder from a 1963 Wagoneer and put it on the clutch side of my M715. Fits perfectly and works very nicely with my NV4500 setup. You do have to drill some holes in the firewall and in the clutch pedal for the rod.

what size slave bore did you use Mikel?

I don't have a good opinion of automatics generally either. However, after wheeling my 6.2 powered M1009 over the weekend with another 1009, a Pinzgauer and a pair of M715's. I might really be going over to the dark side.

The 6.2 trucks chuged up the hills with very little wheel spin. The 350 powered TH400 driven M715 had a little more rpm, but shot right up the hills. The stock M715 screamed up the hills and the Pinz had the engine screaming and all 6 spinning.

Dodging trees, over rocks and logs and stopping on slopes sure were easy with the automatic.

The new pump on a 6.2 is almost worth $400 by itself. Matter of fact, if it was really rebuilt and calibrated by a Stanadyne guy. I will send you $300 for it right now. Really!

If your buddy really has a 6.2 700R4 with the tv cable and the cable bracket for the engine. That is the holy grail of CUCV parts if it is a 4x4 version. If you don't want it, how much? 2wd or 4wd?

I have a NV4500 behind a 396 Big Block in my M715. The OD sure is nice for all driving, not just above 30 mph. I am probably going to pull the 396 and put a 6.2 in there as soon as I get some other projects done. If I had a 700R4 with the 6.2 bracket, I would be putting that in as well. That is the super nice thing about the divorced t case on the M715. Any transmission will fit just about.

Now, if you really want to stay standard. Sermis, Pistolnut and myself have made 88-99 chevy or dodge hydraulic clutch master and slave setups work on our M715's with very good results. I like the dodge version better because it is less holes to drill in the firewall. But, either is great and cheap to find already hooked together in junkyards.

I remember a lot of talk about the clutch set up, but I didn't realize you guys had fixed up hydro systems that worked. Could you take some photos and general info, Tim? The triple Z clutch system I have isn't very efficient, mostly on my left knee. That would be fantastic info!

Fling: I think $400 for an diesel that you know runs is a great price, especially if it's a turbo'd motor. I think the 465/205 would be a great combo as well.

Here is the thread about putting stuff on Pistolnut's truck:

http://www.m715zone.com/vb/showthread.php?t=10019

It has some pictures of the clutch slave mount. It woked out pretty good.

The welding class is using the camera right now, so I can't get a picture of the clutch master as mounted on Sermis' truck. My truck is at home and Pistolnut has had his truck back for a year now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Flingarrows

what size slave bore did you use Mikel?

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I used the factory one for a Dodge Ram CTD with the NV4500. Not sure about the bore or travel.

I totally skipped those photos. I might have opened it at work which doesn't allow downloading a majority of the photos here. Thanks Tim, I'll check it out later tonight- gonz

The Dodge clutch master has a quarter turn mount and the GM master has a two bolt flange mount. I have used both and think the Dodge version is easier to install. Just my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barrman

Now, if you really want to stay standard. Sermis, Pistolnut and myself have made 88-99 chevy or dodge hydraulic clutch master and slave setups work on our M715's with very good results. I like the dodge version better because it is less holes to drill in the firewall. But, either is great and cheap to find already hooked together in junkyards.

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Thanks for the info. Is there a rod on the master with an eye on the end that allows you to mount to the 715 pedal? did you have to shim it or build a standoff to match the throw on the pedal?

Thanks for all of the replies, I'm still reading everything

I just looked up pics of 63 Jeep MC, and the dodge & GM MC and slave. RockAuto has some good pictures there. That looks pretty simple. The hardest part looks to be making a bracket for the slave cylinder

The 86 and newer sm465's have the bracket for the slave cylinder cast into the bell.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wrecker

The 86 and newer sm465's have the bracket for the slave cylinder cast into the bell.

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Unfortunately, I have 2 - 465s, a 2wd and 4wd version both of them the older style bell housing. I watched a few of the hydraulic bell housings on ebay for about 6 months, placed a few bids. Evidently, there is gold under the aluminum coating :eek:

It would be cheaper going with the Novak or Parts Mike kit.

I do appreciate the input though, Wrecker

Yes, they have the round ended push rod for the pedal. I just used a 2" piece of flat steel to connect the pedal post to the eye on the pushrod. That way the pushrod didn't need to be cut and could stay pretty flat during its travel. The post is so low on the stock pedal that is swings in a rather large arc. I will try to get pictures because I know this isn't explaining things too good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Barrman

Yes, they have the round ended push rod for the pedal. I just used a 2" piece of flat steel to connect the pedal post to the eye on the pushrod. That way the pushrod didn't need to be cut and could stay pretty flat during its travel. The post is so low on the stock pedal that is swings in a rather large arc. I will try to get pictures because I know this isn't explaining things too good.

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If you could dig up a picture or two, that would be great

Here you go. The pedal with the adaptor plate:
http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/3...15clutchpe.jpg

Here is the master with remote resevoir mounted on the firewall:
http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/4...15clutchma.jpg

We don't have a clutch in the truck yet, so we haven't set the flat iron transfer bar to the exact length it needs to be. I just had the kid making the part to install for Pistolnut make two and bolt the other onto the truck for Sermis. Otherwise, the pedal would be all the way up and the bar a little shorter.

Thanks, that makes sense now. Are you using a hydro bell housing or making a bracket?

The truck with the pictures has a 6BT engine in it and a Dodge hydro bell. Bolts right up.

Mine with the Chevy NV4500 has the Chevy hydro bell. Again bolts right up but is in the way of the passenger side drop front drive shaft.

The other thread linked to a few post up is a 350 SBC with a M35a2 3053A 5 speed. Everything was fabricated on that one.

Awesome, thanks

ive had a stock chevy set up hydro clutch in my kaiser for a while now, i bought a hydro clutch bell housing, slave cyl, master cyl, and line, it was an awesom fit. i just shortened the master cyl rod an threaded it for a small heim joint. this was a few years ago, i was probably 16 when i did it so anyone could lol

ill see if i can find any better pics

http://a2.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/i...32ac6d69/l.jpg

http://a2.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/i...4d0f7dc1/l.jpg

thanks for the pics, foodstamp. That is a very clean engine compartment

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...5/DSC00327.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...5/DSC00334.jpg

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/b...5/DSC00335.jpg

Awesome, thanks foodstamp

GM slave & MC guys: are the fittings metric? I am trying to order a shorter hose since mine will be on the drivers side, and the stock GM hose run to the pass side. None of the descriptions mention fitting size on the slave or MC.

I took my parts to the local hardware store to see if I could find the thread pitch. 7/16-20 would thread all the way in, but its slightly loose.

I ordered a JIC hose from Granger, thinking that possible the 7/16-20 on the JIC may have some sort of taper like npt. No dice. Unfortunately, the counter guy at Granger didnt have any metric stuff in stock to try to size it up.

I am going to stop by a hydraulic shop on Monday to see if they can make a hose, but if someone knows the pitch and type, I may be able to order one online.

can you post what info you find on thread type?

Absolutely, 40.

The Hydraulic parts guy refereed me to a local guy. I assume that he does alot of machinery (forklifts, etc) because he is a roving 1 man shop with a cell phone number. We have talked a few times, but haven't met up yet because of my schedule. He says he specializes in "industrial" but should be able to help me out.

I'll find out the fitting sizes, and if the price is reasonable, see if I can get a fixed price for the hose. I have the part numbers for the slave and MC. I'll post up after i get it working

I spent hours and hours trying to find a clutch master and slave pair that would do everything I wanted. I have the 6.2/NV4500 with GM bell. I was hoping to have threaded attachments for both master and slave so I could custom bend/flare a metal line.

Sadly none of the slaves available at NAPA had the right bolt width to match up to the bell holes except the kind with the roll-pin-secured plastic lines, which I *really* wanted to avoid. In the end I just went with complete master/slave/stupid-plastic-line setup for a "1994 Chevrolet Truck K3500 1 Ton 4WD - Pickup 6.5"

Napa part numbers: 350042 - NNC - Clutch Master Cylinder, 360027 - NNC - Clutch Slave Cylinder, & 801-5051 - BK - Clutch Hose.

The combo was way more expensive than any of the other individual parts I could find, but it was the only way I could make all the parts work together right. Either the bore sizes were mismatched or the bolt holes wouldn't line up or it had the wrong type of pushrod. Very frustrating but in the end I got a system that works, and all the parts from the same vehicle...

Sounds like some others have had better luck... and if you have a different bellhousing you may be in better shape than I was. I just didn't want to have to go too crazy making brackets to make everything fit. The only bracket I ended up making was to go on the clutch pedal itself, very similar to the two that have already been shown here.

Also as Barrman said the chevy hydro bell hits the front driveshaft and front axle's yoke -- I took out the driveshaft just to play around with it and it worked great until I hit a bump and cracked the stupid slave cyl. I was toying with a springover anyway so rather than go find a different bell I just went sprung over to get the clearance I needed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by syzygy

I spent hours and hours trying to find a clutch master and slave pair that would do everything I wanted. I have the 6.2/NV4500 with GM bell. I was hoping to have threaded attachments for both master and slave so I could custom bend/flare a metal line.

Sadly none of the slaves available at NAPA had the right bolt width to match up to the bell holes except the kind with the roll-pin-secured plastic lines, which I *really* wanted to avoid. In the end I just went with complete master/slave/stupid-plastic-line setup for a "1994 Chevrolet Truck K3500 1 Ton 4WD - Pickup 6.5"

Napa part numbers: 350042 - NNC - Clutch Master Cylinder, 360027 - NNC - Clutch Slave Cylinder, & 801-5051 - BK - Clutch Hose.

The combo was way more expensive than any of the other individual parts I could find, but it was the only way I could make all the parts work together right. Either the bore sizes were mismatched or the bolt holes wouldn't line up or it had the wrong type of pushrod. Very frustrating but in the end I got a system that works, and all the parts from the same vehicle...

Sounds like some others have had better luck... and if you have a different bellhousing you may be in better shape than I was. I just didn't want to have to go too crazy making brackets to make everything fit. The only bracket I ended up making was to go on the clutch pedal itself, very similar to the two that have already been shown here.

Also as Barrman said the chevy hydro bell hits the front driveshaft and front axle's yoke -- I took out the driveshaft just to play around with it and it worked great until I hit a bump and cracked the stupid slave cyl. I was toying with a springover anyway so rather than go find a different bell I just went sprung over to get the clearance I needed.

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Thanks for the info. I am using the standard bellhousing: cant find a hydro for a reasonable price, but sounds like a better option with DS clearance. So now i need a shorter line. I ended up using a matched slave and mc from an 89-91 k2500. Rockauto.com had the best pricing, I think about $30-35 each.

I'll need to make a bracket for both sides. I'll just kind of use the Novak Adapter version for the template on the BH side, and Barrmans trick for the pedal side

I got the hose from the hydraulic guy. He used 2 M12x1.5 to JIC adapters shown here (2nd item): http://www.discounthydraulichose.com...ric_p/9068.htm
and then made a hose with JIC female on both sides. It is a braided hose. I had the guy make the hose, but you can but it online from Grangers and the like

I mounted up the MC using Barrman's method, only a bit higher on the pedal, since the MC only had 1.5" stroke.

I'll post up a picture or two tonight. Thanks to everyone who gave me the info

Here is a little more info on the parts I used on the hydro clutch:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...garrows/MC.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...rows/slave.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1.../bracket-1.jpg

These are the parts I used to use on a manual bell housing. If anyone wants a pdf copy of the bracket, for tracing or measuring, just send me a PM

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...utchSlave1.jpg

pretty much the same master cylider and slave cylinder I used. How thick is your bracket that mounted to the bellhousing I used 1/4" and everthing works great so far

I used 1/4" as well. Do you have any problems with flexing/movement? I was trying to decide if I needed to run a rod back to the block or trans to add support. I know that the novak kit doesn't have it, but I would rather over build it if necessary

I havent had any problems everything shifts very little movement if any. It was just a pain to bleed the system.However my philosophy is you cant over build something

agreed, thanks for the info Alaska

Btt

I have a little update on my clutch. The rod that came with the parts listed was just a tad short. I ended up using a spare 6.2 pushrod, with a nut welded to it about 3/4 down. I slide the fulcrum/pivot from a 68-72 chevy over that and it fits perfectly in the 68-72 clutch fork.

clutch seems to work good, back and forth in the driveway:D

I have a hydraulic clutch setup from advanced adapters similar to this. I love it great setup for the last 10 plus years