Printable View
I searched far and wide for the size of the cargo canvas. Can anyone measure theirs for me. I'll need width and length, and the size and spacing of the grommets.
I believe I found a place to have these made for at least 1/2 the price of the regular suppliers. What I don't have is a pattern or sizes.
Thanks
Scott
Love to have a set myself just can't afford the $650 price tag. Be great if you can find a place to do it for half that. I would definitely be interested.
http://www.m715zone.com/vb/picture.p...&pictureid=227
Looks to me that if we measure the bed tiedowns we would have the gromet spacing. I have looked at several pictures and it looks like the ropes basically come straight down.
Then the bed length plus about a foot for the rap around, that should give about 6" front and back. SHOULD THERE BE MORE?
I would stitch the front and back ends with a 2", for lack of better words , fold over...like the hood of a sweatshirt for a draw string. 4" circumference = 1.27" dimeter, enough room for a rope to go through.
It looks like the sides come down to the bottom of the 'upper bed rim'.
It would be really nice to be able to stitch in 3 doublers from the corners to corners horizontally and then front to back down the center for better wear. Might make it too complicated though. Complicated = more money.
I'm in, that's 3.
THANKS SCOTT!
See what happens when I wake up at 5am on my days off? I spend more money! lol
I'd be interested in this also.
What are the bows made of? I could likely fabricate them myself.
Oak and the corners are stamped steel.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeeper
I just installed mine. I'll get some measurements
This will be strictly the canvas cargo top only. The ends are available NOS yet from several suppliers.
Cargo top corners and other hardware items are available from Vintage Power Wagons, although I made my own staves and stave stops.
Scott
Here we go:
top lip on bed.....2.50"
Troop seats......22.25
Legs/bows........92.00
Troop seat........22.25
top lip on bed......2.50
total................141 1/2" or 11' 3/4" width
length of bed.....97" or 8' 1", including the front lip=1.5" and tailgate 2.5".
The gromet measurements on my truck: Hopefully others will measure as well.
Front tiedown were measured from front of bed (not including forward bed lip) and
Aft tiedowns were measured from rear of bed (not including tail gate).
Looks like:.........driver side.......pas. side
Front tiedowns.......6.5"...............6.5"
2nd teidowns........32.0"..............33.5"
3rd tiedowns........29.5"..............27.5"
4th tiedowns.........3.5"................3.5"
I hope this makes sense! Time to draw it out on paper and see what we come up with.
Anything yet? Any other measurements?
Thanks...Ken
According to the New Life Canvas website they sell the cover for $355 and they can add roll up buckles for an extra $30. I didn't like the idea of a $650 cover either.
I know there has been a LOT of hesitation about buying from New Life this past year but I took a leap of faith and told my wife to try ordering up a cab cover for me (with the roll up curtain) for my birthday or xmas and she did. She got it within a couple weeks and her card was only charged when the top shipped. I only suggested this to her after reading another member got one quickly back in November or October.
I guess I better get my bows back in shape. I only have 2 of the 3. The previous owner had what looks like a M101 trailer bow for the 3rd.
Well, in the frigid 10 degree back garage, I assembled and installed the cargo top frame.
What I measured was the overall 'hump' of the top. I measured from the bottom of the bed lip on the side, that is where it appears to end on all the photos of trucks I saw on this site. The measurement is 142 inches.
The measurement end-to-end of the cargo seat frame is 91 inches long.
What I don't know yet is how much the canvas top wraps around the ends. Guesstimating it looks like 6 inches on each end.
I got my canvas end flaps from Saturn Surplus yesterday. Boy do those look awesome for $22.50 each. Comes with rope, too.
Now, the end pieces must attach to the top frame indepently of the cover. It looks like you must weave the rope in and out of the holes in the end canvas and around the frame.
I'm open to suggestions on securing this to the frame. The photos on this site don't show detail on this, however one truck showed that they tied it in only a couple places with shorter rope pieces.
The cargo cover itself appears to have a rope sleeve in each end, and a rope is fed thru the length of the cover and it is tied down to the hooks on the end of the cargo box/tailgate, and 4 side tie points each. So it looks like there are only four grommets on each side.
[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...5cargotop2.jpg[/IMG]
I'm using this image from this site, I hope its ok, only to illustrate my point.
The image from the -34p manual shows a series of grommets in the top to match the grommets of the end curtains. I believe this is wrong.
We're getting closer. Chime in here, folks. Need the measurements of the end wrap around, and spacing of side grommets.
Scott
OK, here's what I came up with.
Bed side length (not including front rib or rear tailgate) 92 1/2 round up to 93.
Wrap around 8 inches each end. (I looked at a few more photos, 6 inches didn't seem like enough)
Total overall length 109 inches.
Height from bottom of box upper side rib over the top to bottom of other upper side rib 143 inches (actual 142, I added 1 inch more)
That's the easy part. Grommet spacing now:
[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...argotop2-1.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...rgotopm715.jpg[/IMG]
Notice how the third grommet from the front, the grommet is located about 4 inches in front of the tie down. And the rearmost grommet is about two inches forward of the tie down. (notice on the vintage photo, the rear tie rope is not in the correct spot, it is tied down to where the tools mount).
The first two grommets are directly above the hooks.
This is what I came up with, pardon the crudeness.
[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...shtail/IMG.jpg[/IMG]
So this is the sample I will have made. Grommets to fit a 3/8 inch rope, and the ends of the canvas will have the rope hole all the way thru like a hooded sweatshirt (thanks, Ken).
18 ounce treated material, OD green. I have the cargo frame assembled on the truck, when I receive the top, I'll fit it and see what it looks like.
Wish me luck.........
Scott
WOW, very nice! My fingers are crossed for the first prototype! You mentioned treated material. What is it treated for? Waterproof? Is there supposed to be anything on the inside roof to tie it down to the bows? Great job there Scott!!
Ken
The canvas is mil-spec 18 oz water-resistant and mildew-resistant material, same as original.
In regards to fastening, the top is fastened down by the 4 side grommets and the long end internal loops. Nothing ties it to the bows.
I'm still guessing how the end curtains tie to the bows. If it wasn't so darn cold out there, I'd try it today.
Scott
Fishtail, that's my cargo cover you found a picture of (the non-vintage one!) It is not on the vehicle right now; it's folded up in the garage. Tomorrow I could lay it out and take whatever measurements you wish. Pics too if they would help.
Hey, Scott:Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
Sorry I didn't get to this earlier. I unfolded the cargo cover pictured above and here is what I came up with:
The entire canvas, complete with grommets, ropes, etc., weighs in at exactly 26 pounds, according to my digital luggage scale. I'm not sure what the fabric weight is for this canvas, but let's try to figure it out:
26#/11.37 sq. yds. = 2.28# per yard or about 36oz.
Of course that includes the grommets, rope, hems, whatever nasty waterproofing they coat on the thing, etc. Don't get too light a material or it will flap itself to pieces as you drive down the road. This stuff doesn't flap!
The canvas is 110" long (front of truck to back of truck), so it was very close to your estimated 109".
It is 134" wide (from one side, up and over the top and down to the other side).
(Note that the canvas was laid on a cold concrete floor in an unheated garage with snow on the ground outside. It had been sitting for several months folded into a 2 ft. square for storage and opened up and laid out just before the measurements were taken, so the actual dimensions might be a skootch more. I did make a good effort to pull it tight, so it won't be more than an inch or so.)
There is a 1-1/2" seam joining two halves of the canvas to make this whole cover. It runs at about the halfway point up the side. That is, it splits the canopy front and rear. You can see the seam on the picture of my truck above running straight up directly above the tire pressure label on the stake pocket above the rear wheel, running up and over along the center rib.
There is also a 2-inch hem running the entire perimeter. On the ends this hem forms a pocket, as you noted, for the end ropes to run through. All four corners have a gusset sewn over them for reinforcement, as seen in the picture below.
The first grommet, measuring from one end along one side, is 16-1/2" from the edge of the canvas. The next grommet is 26" from the first, center to center. (13" later is the middle of the center seam, by the way.) From the 2nd grommet to the next is 27 inches. The 4th and last grommet is 24-3/4" from the third. From the last grommet to the other edge is 16".
Funny, but I took the same measurements on the other side and came up with this: 15-1/2", 26", 28-1/2", 25" & 16-1/4". So obviously a bit of inconsistency is plenty acceptable! No surprise!
The ropes (roughly 1/2" diameter) are jute or hemp or whatever, soaked in some sort of petroleum preservative. The loose ends of the rope running through the pockets at each end stick out 5 feet per side (or 134" + 120" = 254" long rope per end).
Each tie-down rope finished length is 30" long. Each is looped through the grommet and the bitter end attached to the working end by a metal ferrule. This picture shows one of the corners, with the end rope coming out of the end of the pocket and the tie-down rope on the first grommet.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...110_173723.jpg
Hope that helps you!
That's correct. There are tie points on the front of the bed and on the tailgate for those end internal loop-ropes. They cinch the ends of the canopy around the bows and prevent it from sliding much at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
I unthreaded the rope from the end piece and had it only running through the grommet at the middle top. I then wrapped one end of the rope around the front bow and then ran it through the next grommet. Then another wrap around the bow and through the 3rd grommet, and so on. Then the same going the other way with the other end of the rope. Bottom of the end piece on the OUTSIDE of the bed! (I didn't do that the first time!) :oops:Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
The back end piece can be looped similarly, but only over the top of the bow and through only the upper grommets. Then a single wrap or so along the side and pick up one of the lower grommets, then tied off. This way the line can be untied and released from the side and the back curtain slid across the top bow like a curtain for access to the back. One of the vets in my local MV club said that's how they used to do it. There should be no shortage of vets here on the Zone who could confirm or correct this....
The length I'll change to the 110 inches instead of 109.
The width there is quite a bit difference. Both Ken and I measured our cargo frames and he got 141 1/2 and I got 142. Yours measures 134. According to the photos, the canvas goes near the bottom of the side lip. 9 inches difference roughly is alot. We'll have to work on that one yet.
The weight I got off New Life website, and seems to be the heaviest available.
Quote from their website: "Standard, original style cab tops are made of 18oz./square yard canvas with the correct milspec water and mildew resistant finish. " unquote.
Notice that it says that for the cab top, but not the cargo top. Are the two tops the same weight?
The material I'll be using states it is extra heavy duty, 18 oz, treated, water and mildew resistant, 100% cotton duck canvas, OD color.
The rope in the 34p manual states 'rope, sisal, 3 strand 3/8 diameter, 288 inches long. (side ties are same but 34 inches long)
McMaster Carr has sisal rope 3/8 diameter in stock.
The detail photo shows the stitching and corner detail with internal rope. I'll pass that one along.
Grommets I'll go at 16-26-26-26-16, that splits pretty closely all what we came up with.
So, if we can figure out the width of the top and weight, we'll be ok then.
Getting closer.
Scott
You were measuring your cargo frames. I measured the cover itself. The very one in that picture of my truck in the driveway.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
I'll measure it again for you in the morning to confirm.
As I mentioned, the weight of my cover included the dye, waterproofing, ropes, stitching, etc. I just gave it to you as a reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
I've never really examined a surplus cab top. I have the New Life top (in fact, the M715 model on their website is mine) and it feels close to the same. If that's the fabric weight they use for the cab, I'm sure it will serve well for the cargo cover.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
I just guessed the 1/2". I'm sure your 3/8" is correct. The 34" is probably the entire length of the ropes. Mine measure 30", not counting the loop through the grommet.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
I'm sure your fabric weight is fine. I'll double-check the width measurement for you in the morning and post up again.Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
Closer? Dude, you're there. Actual measurements taken of a cover you've seen fit properly in pictures? Doesn't get much better than that!Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
Cheers....
Confirmed at 134-1/2" wide. :dunno:
Great job there Scott!
Just wondering, what is the hesitation from buying fron New Life Canvas. I don't run a canvas cover on my truck, but may someday.
As a Vietnam motorpool vet, all you guys seem to have done your homework. It's amazing how precise you are. After 6 years in the Army, I couldn't have come up with better numbers. I've got to say, we never worried about size or how it fit. Throw it over the bows and tie it down, and hoped it stayed on. GREAT job, and it looks great!
Here's more (whether we need it or not, just trying to get this accurate):
Numbered duck
If a piece of the cloth 36 inches by 22 inches weighs less than 19 ounces, the cloth is called numbered duck. The grade of numbered duck is calculated by subtracting the weight in ounces of a piece 36 inches by 22 inches from 19. For example, a piece of #5 numbered duck 1 yard by 22 inches would weigh 14 ounces (19 − 14 = 5). The bigger the number, the lighter the cloth.
Numbered duck is nominally made in weights from 1 to 12, but numbers 7, 9, and 11 are no longer used. Some typical uses of various weights are:
#1 hammocks, sand bags
#2 hatch paulins
#4 sea bags
#6 large boat covers
#8 clothes bags
#10 shower curtains
From http://www.sizes.com
Here's a quote direct from a supplier of mil. veh. tops and covers:
We use mil spec #8 duck for all exterior canvas and #10 for interior canvas as per the original specifications. Number Duck is subject to much more stringent weave and strength requirements than ounce duck.
Any website that tries to impress you with weight of canvas is either using inferior ounce duck, or has limited knowledge of the subject matter. Weight has nothing to do with number duck (other than the fact that it can be thrown on a scale and register some unimportant result).
I will double check with my supplier again about that.
I am still confused about the width. I am going to measure the top frame again right now. I got 142 again. Just between the ends of the corners (the exposed 'bent' wood) is 44 inches. From that point down each side to the bottom of the upper side bed lip is 49 inches. 49+49+44=142 inches.
Here's two photos of the bows installed just to look at if I did anything wrong:
[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...tail/010-3.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...tail/011-2.jpg[/IMG]
Everything looks kosher. The troop seat uprights measure 22 1/8, and the bed lip is 2 1/2 inches. The troop seats sit vertical with the bows installed. The corners and bent wood are NOS, and the staves are exact replicas of NOS one Jon gave me.
Binford: The only thing missing is to actually measure one bow assy. installed on your truck. I've really bugged you enough, but this width one is pretty critical. Is it possible to throw your troop seats on and one bow and measure it? I could bribe you cash and prizes. I know it's a PITA, but somethings not the same between our trucks.
Let me know what you can come up with if its not too much trouble.
Scott
BTW, militarypotts: the reason I'm doing this is that I can get this done for at least half of what the dealers want. (I hope....)
Fantastic reference info...great stuff Scott!!
My troop seats are hanging on the "garage wall" (Costco tarp-canopy!), but I need to pull the wood slats off anyway and refinish them as the urethane hasn't held up as well as I anticipated. I should have some time today, or at worst, this weekend, to check that for you.
I put the troop seats on and stuck a top support bow in:
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...114_154457.jpg
Then I measured it, from the bottom of the bedrail on the outside to the same point on the other side, running the tape continuously (number-side in so it would go around the corners properly) and got 141 inches. Very close to what you and Ken found.
So there ya go....
I also found that I had run over one of my corner pieces. It had rolled out from the side and I must have run over it when I pulled the truck out last time.
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...114_154649.jpg
:blowup:
Thanks for sending the measurement. I am going to have the cover made at 142 inches and see what that looks like. I'd rather be too long than too short, maybe.
I'll get this info to my supplier and see what I get.
Sorry about your corner, Binford. I hope you can straighten it out without too much trouble.
I see you put your stave stops to the inside of the stave. The 34p manual has them on the outside. I see inside would leave less the cover could rub on. My bow assy's. are bowed out, so the stops hit on the outside of the pockets. Hate to have a point deducted at the next MVPA convention......
Scott
I'm anxious to hear how this turns out. I'm interested in getting a cover for mine as well.
Just curious, will this end up cheaper than New Life Canvas?
How's it coming Scott?
Well, unfortunately, my suppler cannot make what I want. They can make the overall size, but they wanted to put the grommets at 4 feet apart. I tried to explain where I wanted them in relation to the side dimentions, don't think they understood where I was coming from. And they could not figure out the rope sleeve in the ends. I sent the photo that Binford sent me showing the detail of the sleeve and rope.
I was thinking now they were just going to cut down a larger tarp that is already made.
I guess if I sent a complete top to them, they could figure it out, but if I had a top, I'd just put it on the truck instead. And besides, it would be 'about 300 dollars', and that is only a bit less than what New Life tops are. I don't think it's worth more time and hassle just to save $50.
FWIW, I tried. I'm just going to order one from New Life. When I get it, I'll measure it all up and post it for future reference.
Scott:(
I may have some one that can stitch me up a cargo canvas. He needed a few pictures. Can someone please take and email me pic of the middle seam & the end where the rope 'draw string' tie down comes out. Also, please measure the height of the side hem where the grommets are and the diameter of the grommet.
His question about the middle seam is the type of splice. Is it 'end to end' or does it overlap? I would guess overlap for strength.
Pleas email to 285nav@netzero.net
THANK YOU!
The splice should be 2 inches overlap, and the sides (hems) are 2 inches as well. The ends with the rope sleeve should be 2 inch hem, plus the rope sleeve in there. I had a pic, but I can't find it on my drive now.
Hope someone can help there.
Scott
PS the picture is in the second page half way down of this topic.
Do you mean this pic, from post #16?Quote:
Originally Posted by fishtail
http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...110_173723.jpg
FYI, each Zone user can custom set the number of posts per page. I think the default is 10 (I set mine to 20), so what's on your 2nd page might be on someone else's first page.
Thanks Tim...I did see that picture. I wanted to print it and for some reason I can not. I can save the pic to my computer and it's fine but then when I got to print it...it gets all distorted. I have never had that happen before. Therefore, I was hoping for a different picture file.
Instead of saving the pic and printing I printed the entire page and it worked! I also ordered the sisal rope from McMaster-Carr and it got here in no time!
Thanks Guys!!
I just noticed there was not a post of the final product of all this hard work.
http://i569.photobucket.com/albums/s...psfa9b04d4.jpg
Nice!Quote:
Originally Posted by kyken