elohim1 : BBC header selection, what did you use?

BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by elohim1 on Sept 17, 2006, 8:22pm

Which Headers did you use in your M715 for a Big block chevy?

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by robertcowan on Sept 17, 2006, 8:39pm

shorty block huggers. speedway motors has em about the cheapest. i,d use hi-perf cast iron stock manifolds personalls, less trouble and last forever.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by jed on Sept 17, 2006, 9:02pm

I prefer the cast iron manifolds as well, but you probably don't have 'em that's why your looking for headers! Seems like those shorty block huggers fit the best in just about anything.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by kevins on Sept 17, 2006, 10:27pm

If you go to the link below, you can see what the block hugger headers look like in my M715. If you have any questions let me know.

http://www.geocities.com/ckswayze/index.html

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by robertcowan on Sept 17, 2006, 10:45pm

they do make aftermarket cast iron headers-exhaust manifolds. sanderson headers make em i know for sure.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by bluesman2a on Sept 18, 2006, 11:54am

Here's the place I got my replica Corvette Cast Manifolds from:
http://stores.ebay.com/1A-Auto-Inc-All-y....5QQftidZ2QQtZkm

They were cheap (Less than headers), they appear to be good quality, and have not leaked yet. I would look through and see if they have anything you can use for your BBC. You will need to know a factory application though.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by bluesman2a on Sept 18, 2006, 11:56am

Here is what they have listed for 454's...
http://search.stores.ebay.com/1A-Auto-In....5701277QQsofpZ0

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by bluesman2a on Sept 18, 2006, 11:59am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">If you go to the link below, you can see what the block hugger headers look like in my M715. If you have any questions let me know.

http://www.geocities.com/ckswayze/index.html</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Side question: What is this coolant-puke-tank out of, please?

http://www.geocities.com/ckswayze/33.jpg

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by barrman on Sept 18, 2006, 12:03pm

I don't know about the coolant tank, but I like the way it fits.

I am using my stock 1966 396 iron manifolds and they work great. They look real close to the ones on the E-Bay store you linked us to.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by gimpyrobb on Sept 18, 2006, 1:31pm

Chris, I have an extra set of bbc manifolds from my 1st 366 if you'd like.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by over2land on Sept 18, 2006, 4:19pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">If you go to the link below, you can see what the block hugger headers look like in my M715. If you have any questions let me know.

http://www.geocities.com/ckswayze/index.html</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Do you have a stick or auto?

With my clutch linkage, the drivers side header you've got won't work for me.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by kevins on Sept 18, 2006, 6:16pm

bluesman2a,
The puke tank came from Napa(I think) it was a few years ago.
Also someone else asked about what tranny, I have a T400 connected to a NP205

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by elohim1 on Sept 18, 2006, 7:46pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Chris, I have an extra set of bbc manifolds from my 1st 366 if you'd like.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Chris, I may take you up on that.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by elohim1 on Sept 18, 2006, 7:57pm

Great pics and great info.


Does not the motor breathe better with headers as opposed to manifolds ?

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by robertcowan on Sept 18, 2006, 10:03pm

OLDER STYLE BBC MANIFOLDS WONT WORK ON THE NEWER STYLE HEADS I DONT THINK. THE PORTS ARE DIFFERENT.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by bluesman2a on Sept 18, 2006, 10:16pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Does not the motor breathe better with headers as opposed to manifolds ?</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Stock manifolds are notoriously constrictive in most cases. Notable exceptions to that would be like the SBC corvette rams-horn manifolds which seem to get pretty good reviews. Yes headers do breathe better, but are notorious for leaking and/or cracking over time. These are not problems one typically has with cast manifolds, they seal better, and generally have much better longevity.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by robertcowan on Sept 18, 2006, 11:19pm

they do make vette cast iron free flowing manifold-headers for a bbc. and you can always get the old die grinder out and free up the flow alot too !!!! remember alot of flow helps the top end rpm and less flow equals more torque.....

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by 40grit on Sept 19, 2006, 8:15am

chris,
I was consdiering going with Hooker headers, Hotrod magazine did a test back in 2004 with the zz454, 68-74 chevelle headers ( 1 7/8") did the best job for both low end torque and WFO Hp....(516 HP/560ft-lb)
just gotta call and see if they'll tell me the measurements to see if they'll fit

Bob might be onto something also....

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by bluesman2a on Sept 19, 2006, 8:52am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">they do make vette cast iron free flowing manifold-headers for a bbc.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Well color me educated Bob! Did not know that. Thanks for the heads-up!

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by 40grit on Sept 19, 2006, 9:36am

I thought for upgraded performance you were always supposed to go headers, cast iron exhaust manifolds are built for cheapness by OEM, not actual performance like a header. Is there a case where iron manifolds outperform headers designed for the same application?

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by barrman on Sept 19, 2006, 9:57am

Mark,
It all depends on what you define "out perform" as.

Aftermarket headers will almost always make more top end power. They will sound better and the engine will probably get better gas milage going down the highway with the cruise set. This is really true of modern efi engines.

But, except for a very few brands and applications that are really expensive. Headers will not "out perform" OEM manifolds when it comes to longevity and leaks. The OEM's concentrate on stuff that will stay bolted on and not cause return issues with leaks. Especially all vehicles made after 1967 when the EPA got their fingers in the exhaust pie.

Many headers will not out perform OEM manifolds when it comes to low rpm high torque situations. I define "low rpm" as 2,000 rpm and lower. As pointed out above, the smaller the valve and exhaust pipe, the more low end torque an engine will make compared to a big exhaust valve and huge exhaust system on the same engine.

Banks and Edelbrock both make CAFE legal headers for the newer stuff. That is a big hurdle to go over. I also think both companies make good products they stand behind and have for years. If you can find something from them that will fit the truck, go for it. I have tried most of the other brands in the past and always wished I hadn't a few years down the road when the headers start to either rust out or burn through. This is not counting the almost monthly chore of re-tightening the headers to the engine, really hard spark plug changes and the always leaking flange gasket that takes about 5 hands to get right.

Then you need to consider the replacement issues. Say bought a hooker set up today. 2-4 years from now when it is all warped, rusted and burned through, you will have to replace them. You didn't like how their product worked and you are going to try the Banks. You will probably have to get different bolts to make it attach to the engine. Then your existing pipe won't match up and probably will have the wrong end on it anyway.

Unless you are going to be drag racing, mud bogging or sand running your M715, I really can't see an advantage to headers on a daily driven street legal truck.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by gimpyrobb on Sept 19, 2006, 11:28am

Bob, chris works not far from my house and can check the fit with relative ease, But thanks for the heads up on fitment. Chris let me know when (if) you want to swing by to check thm out, I have to get them from my buddy's shop first.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by 40grit on Sept 19, 2006, 11:51am

Tim,
good points, I had a set of Thorley headers on a warmed up 'burb, except for the $@%#$^ collector gasket, I never had a problem with the exhaust gasket...had that truck for 5 years, changed lots of collector gaskets, but never had a leak with the header to head gasket..

don't stock manifolds also keep substancially more heat under the hood also? it would seem all that cast iron would hold in the heat much better than headers?

Anyone had luck with Jet-hot or similar ceramic coatings? I see most of them recommend not using the coating on a brand new motor, they say to break it in with old headers then switch to coated headers, something about not screwing up the coating....

I had real good luck with Thorley's coating, except the SMF at the muffler shop didn't wipe the handprints off the chrome prior to starting the truck so I had these nice burnt on handprints on the headers, but the finish held up well...

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by 40grit on Sept 19, 2006, 11:54am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Aftermarket headers will almost always make more top end power. They will sound better and the engine will probably get better gas milage going down the highway </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Those are important to me...

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by elohim1 on Sept 19, 2006, 7:56pm

Bob gave me the heads up on Sanderson. I called them today and asked about these manifolds (QP2000). They said they may work on my application.

If they would this maybe the best of both, headers and manifold.

Lets here some thoughts ?

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/prod...products_id=41

(PS, if this link does not work, will someone post it so it will)

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by gimpyrobb on Sept 20, 2006, 7:55am

Those don't look any differant than what I've got from the 366.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by tacomainoh on Sept 20, 2006, 3:18pm

I'll be using Edelbrock shorties. The 454 mockup w/the stockers fit fine and hit nothing. Yay!!!

Elohim, the stock manifolds breathe well enough under 5k that the benefits are going to be minimal with that 502. But if you're swimming in cash, headers look perty... To be honest, the ceramic coating on the shorties I"m going to use is mostly WHY I"m going to use them, as I probably won't have any inner fenders.


Bluesman, FSJ coolant pukers will work fine, and mount to the fenderwell.

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by robertcowan on Sept 20, 2006, 10:04pm

you can get them sandersons cheaper than that elohim1

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by luckypabst on Sept 20, 2006, 10:28pm

Sandersons are the bomb. A properly designed iron manifold can run with the tube headers all day long - they're just heavier and more expensive. The big problem is general opinion is skewed by too many magazine articles and lots of low HP exhaust designs from the OEM.

Personally I can't stand the sound of tube headers. There's a definite tinny ring to them where the cast iron is very rigid and will absorb a lot of noise that you'd hear from the tubes.

If I were facing this decision (and could afford it), I'd go with the Sandersons, no questions asked.

Chris

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by robertcowan on Sept 20, 2006, 11:07pm

ME TOO also add every couple years they rust out, countless amounts of blown gaskets, hard to get to spark plugs , burnt plug wires. on and on .......

Re: BBC header selection, what did you use?
Post by elohim1 on Sept 21, 2006, 8:45pm

Here are some remake corvette manifolds. They seem pricey, but would probabbly work well.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayIS....AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1