agengr : fuel issues

fuel issues
Post by agengr on Sept 16, 2006, 12:06pm

On a completely stock 230, shouldn't the fuel pump fill up the fuel filter before the carb. I have a clear plastic one and can see that it only puts out a minimum of fuel, sputtering very irregularly. The engine runs on this much gas but every once in a while the pause in the sputter of fuel flow is long enough for the engine to die while giving it gas. I have disconected the fuel line behind the fuel pump and blew the line back to the fuel tank. I still have the problem so I am thinking it is the fuel pump or maybe it's supposed to be but now I'm noticing this because I didn't have a clear fuel filter in the past.

Re: fuel issues
Post by brute4c on Sept 16, 2006, 12:25pm

It does sound like it could be the pump....

Sometimes it helps to take the line off the input of the filter and see what kind of push you are getting from the pump...have someone trickle gas down the carb and have a catch can on the line....

It could also be that there is junk in the tank or that the sock is melted and causing a retriction ...just case you blew stuff away from the pickup at one point doesnt mean it stayed away....depending on how much is there...

Re: fuel issues
Post by agengr on Sept 16, 2006, 12:36pm

This problem really started only after I cleaned out the tank. It's not perfect, but a lot better than it was before. Before then, the fuel filter would fill up but that was because there was so much rust that it plugged up the filter. For this reason, I think am going to rule out the tank end of it.

Re: fuel issues
Post by thetroublemaster on Sept 16, 2006, 12:50pm

My CJ and waggie both have clear filters. It is very rare that the filters would fill up all the way. Both had a fair amount of air inside. No runability problems so I quit worring about it.

Check your accelerator pump for a healthy shot of gas when the pedal is depressed. A bad AP could cause it to die when gassing it. Good luck!

Re: fuel issues
Post by agengr on Sept 16, 2006, 2:22pm

The fuel level barely rises to the bottom of the filter element in the filter. It's usually not when I depress the pedal that it dies out, it is usually happens after it has been cruising at a mid-higher rpm for a little while.


Update:
Now it won't stay running for 2 seconds. I was using it to move some hay in the pasture when it started stuttering, then worse and worse until I couldn't get it to move and had to pull it back to our house with the tractor. Watching the filter while trying to start it, there is a small spurt of fuel every 3-4 seconds or so.

I just came home for the day, I am going back to College Station later so I'm not going to be able to do anything with it for a while. Any more tips or tricks would be greatly appreciated so that I can have a plan for when I do get back to work on my truck and thanks to those who have already replied.

Re: fuel issues
Post by thetroublemaster on Sept 16, 2006, 5:47pm

Good luck with it. Sounds like you are looking at the right things.

Re: fuel issues
Post by jfnemt1ff1 on Sept 16, 2006, 5:49pm

I fought this same problem with my 725. I placed a 2nd filter back by the tank,along with the stock by the carb. When my carb filter gets low on gas i back blow the lines and then works fine. junck in tank. Also at idle the pump should fill up a 1L pop bottle in about 30sec. You could also have a weak pump.

Re: fuel issues
Post by binfordm715 on Sept 18, 2006, 8:18am

Gravity-feed your carb and see if it runs that way. If so, and based on all the other things you've done (blowing the lines and cleaning out the tank), I'd suspect the fuel pump. Get a rebuild kit from "Then-n-Now" (Jon, do they sell whole kits, or just gasket/diaphram material?) for modern materials that will stand up to modern fuels.

Good luck!

Re: fuel issues
Post by barrman on Sept 18, 2006, 9:04am

Joseph,
The mechanical pump will never fill up one of those Walmart clear filters. Plus, at idle your float valve inside the carb is restricting the flow of gas. Those surges you see are when the float drops down and the needle opens up allowing more fuel in.

As far as the stalling. I think it was mentioned above, but vapor lock is an issue with some of these trucks. Especially if your under engine fuel line has been bent anywhere near the exhaust. My stock engine did that too. I just bent it back and it helped. I bypassed it and no more problems until the pump went. Then I added electric pumps. First up at the front of the engine until vapor lock happened again. I think I showed yhou where my pump is under the bed now.

Re: fuel issues
Post by brute4c on Sept 18, 2006, 9:17am

I dont know for certain what is in the kit from then-now.com
I havent used one...someone who has should be able to say....I think you can send your pump to them and they will reuild it for a higher fee as well...

Just checked their site:


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Our kits contain all the parts usually needed to repair an old, tired pump. Diaphragms, gaskets, seals and valves are all new fresh stock of materials intended for use with today's fuels, including fuel with alcohol content.
Our diaphragms are made of fabric reinforced Buna-N Nitrile rubber- the correct choice of the more than 400 different varieties of synthetic rubber made today. It is the one, single, correct, material for use with today's fuels. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

also...


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">All Our Kits contain, where applicable:
Diaphragms: diaphragm cloth if diaphragm was originally held
together by a nut and washer, OR complete staked assemblies
(cloth, metal protector plates, and pull rod) where
required as original.
(you are never expected to stake a diaphragm together yourself-
if you have a kit of ours and find you must- call us for help!)
Check Valves or Valve and Cage: whether the early flat plate and separate
spring style or one-piece, modern caged style
- Check Valve Gaskets - Gasket to cyl. block
- Filter Bowl or Pulsator Gaskets - Filter Bowl Screens
- Oil Seals & Retainers - Rocker Arm Springs
Most Kits also provide:
Rocker Arm Pins and Rocker Arm Bushings (if they don't we don't
recommend taking the pin and the arm out. The old castings may
be too fragile!)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Re: fuel issues
Post by kwai on Sept 18, 2006, 11:57am

The then-now kit is a complete kit. I have rebuild mine but haven't tried it yet.

Re: fuel issues
Post by agengr on Sept 18, 2006, 12:02pm

What makes me scratch my head is that I didn't have this problem until after I cleaned the tank. I started dying out soon after that and it has progressed now to the point that it doesn't get enough fuel to even idle. The vapor lock could be the issue, I'm not going to see my truck again for a few weeks so I won't be able to test that theory for a while.

Re: fuel issues
Post by xjchief on Sept 26, 2006, 6:01am

I had the same issue but found a small fuel leak in the lines on the mechanical pump. I replaced a lot of it and added a fuel filter in the lines near the tank. The clear filter before the carb now fills completely.