barrman : How Would You Do This?

How Would You Do This?
Post by barrman on Oct 3, 2006, 8:20pm

Pictured below is a 8,000 pound Ramsey winch I use on my trailer. A few months ago, when the turn it green craze hit, I took the winch and frame to work. My plan was to let my students take it off the frame, prep both for paint, go over the motor, paint it all and put it back on the trailer. Well, the two broken off bolts you see on the lower level is what happened. One of my stronger bodied, but weaker minded students broke off 5 of the 8 mounting bolts before he told me something didn't seem right. I have drilled and tapped the other 3 out. I just need to make these ones right. The only problem is that I can't get a drill with a smaller than the 5/16" drill bit in there. The chuck hits the upper housing in the picture. I was thinking about welding an extention onto a drill bit and hoping I got it straight enough to drill. The housing doesn't look like it will come apart enough to make taking it off worth while. I have tried 3/8" electric drills, 3/8" cordless drills, air drills, 1/2" drills and 5/16" angle drills. All hit.

What would you do?

Thanks.

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/6577/pa030038zf4.jpg

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by luckypabst on Oct 3, 2006, 8:29pm

Aircraft drill?
http://tinyurl.com/erlpo

You didn't say exactly what size but 1/4" is the largest offered in cobalt (which is what I'd use to drill out a bolt). The offer most all the common sizes in high speed steel if you need a larger bit.

Also, Home Depot sells a 12" lg. 1/4" diameter drill bit but don't expect it to last terribly long if you're drilling a bolt like that.

Other idea - if you have access to a MIG or TIG, carefully weld a hex nut onto the end of the bolt and turn it out with a wrench. Expect the threads to get boogered up so you might need a heli-coil set on hand or be willing to cut larger threads in there.

Chris

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by sermis on Oct 3, 2006, 8:29pm

Installer bits from Lowe's. I think they have smaller sizes. ?? weld on an extension, maybe it will work. If there is enough stud up weld on a nut, maybe the heat will be enough to loosen the stud and it will come out.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by saxon on Oct 3, 2006, 9:04pm

If that's an aluminum case, a guy at worked told me low voltage from a battery charger and some kind of acid dobbed on the steel bolt will rot it out of the hole, I know it sounds crazy but I saw the results before and after on a motercycle head. I'll try to get more info tomorrow. saxon

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by robertcowan on Oct 3, 2006, 9:27pm

TIM,
LOWES SELLS DRILL EXTENSOINS. PUT THE EXTENSION IN DRILL, PUT BIT IN EXTENSION AND DRILL AWAY. ABOUT 20.00 BUCKS.
BOB

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by agengr on Oct 3, 2006, 10:36pm

I'm probably missing something here, can't you drill from the other side?

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by jeepistdougiowa on Oct 3, 2006, 11:08pm

You can get the long drill bits like Chris posted at true value hardware...not sure if you have that chain there or not.

Get a small piece of tube that will fit over the drill bit, but inside the hole if possible....copper works good. Anyway, helps keep the bit from walking off to the side.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by barrman on Oct 4, 2006, 8:14am

It is a closed hole with the gear drive gears for the winch on the other side.

Home Depot and Lowes have stores within 40 miles of me. I just seem to have a mental block about them and quality tools.

Good suggestion on the tube to keep it from walking Doug. Thanks.

Chris, that is the exact drill bit that will work. Thanks for the link. I imagine that it is the same as an installer bit Sermis mentioned.

Bob, don't those extensions have a chuck in them? The chuck is what stops the regular drills from working. I was trying to figure out a way to make one of my "press fit" lathe bits work, but didn't want to screw one up.

Saxon, I am real interested in the acid method. This thing has been sitting for months while I ignored it, it might as well sit a few more weeks while it fixes itself. Please post more info.

Thank you all for the help.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by gregolma715 on Oct 4, 2006, 8:32am

There used to be alot of long shanked drills at flea markets around here, before the aircraft industry totally pulled out.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by davea on Oct 4, 2006, 9:34am

I'm with Chris, weld a nut to the broken bolt. The heat will help loosen it.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by barrman on Oct 4, 2006, 9:55am

I am going to try the weld option tonight if I get all my other pre trip stuff done. I think I am going to weld on the inside of the nut so I don't screw up the housing much.

Thanks again for all your help everybody.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by 40grit on Oct 4, 2006, 6:27pm

how about chuck some 1/2" round stock in the lathe, drill a hole in the end the size of the drill bit, insert the drill bitpointy end out and tack weld it to round stock, chuck it up in drill, drill out the bolt, then cut the drill bit a little shorter ( out of the round stock)

could even drill both out, then tack the EZ-out into the round stock, remove the broken bolts and remove the ezout


if you go for the weld to nut, let it cool before trying to remove it..heat will expand it in the hole making it tighter at first, maybe even give it a wack with a hammer after it cools, right before trying to remove it ...mechanical shock might help break it loose

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by saxon on Oct 4, 2006, 10:37pm

Barrman, I spaced on asking about the acid,low voltage trick, I'm writeing a note right now! I'll get back with you on that one. Dan

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by jeepistdougiowa on Oct 4, 2006, 10:44pm

Negative to the broken bolt, positive to the housing? similar to electrolysis rust removal but with acid instead of washing soda?

I'm very intersed in this, sounds promising.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by gimpyrobb on Oct 5, 2006, 8:26am

Doug, that process is bad. On welding web.com they have talked about that and it will produce a gas that will kill ya in short order. If more info is needed I could dig up that thread.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by barrman on Oct 5, 2006, 8:29am

Mark, that is a great idea.

I spent over an hour installing my defrostor duct tubing. So, I didn't get to even look at this. Tonight is going to be busy as well. Maybe next week.

Re: How Would You Do This?
Post by saxon on Oct 5, 2006, 10:27pm

Ok fellas, here's what I found out, (not much) The guy at work was'nt the guy that did it, BUT, he did give me some info, he called it E.D.M. Electro Discharge Machineing (might be a name brand of patented process) he said they do it in some machine shops. He told me Jerry the guy that did this made his own divise from an issue of (Home Shop Machineist) magasine. He said you can go online and check out the back issues. Sorry I don't know what issue it was in but maybe you could find it if further interested. Sorry, planted a seed but could'nt water it! Dan