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I went to the junkyard to get a 350, and then found a 454. I have a few questions for someone with more knowledge. One, what did you all use to bolt up to the T98 (if you did). The other is whether you are utilizing the oil cooling lines from the 454, are they really necessary? Also was there anything else special/interesting or something you would have changed that was required to get it in the 715. Any and all help is hugely appreciated.
Dan
I uses a 427, but it's basically the same block design. I used a deuce and a half 3053A overdrive tranny and 13" clutch set up instead of the T98. Whatever you do, give yourself some a couple of inches off the firewall with the distributor and you'll have the room up front. I've got an HEI distributor, untouched firewall, four V pulley on the crank and a aluminum radiator with clearance all around the engine. It will fin pretty decently. Expect the pan to be close to the front pumpkin with the suspension flexed. You can either use a stock oil cooler design or go with a remote filter and cooler combo. Or...just slap on a filter and go. Let me know if you need a manual external balance flywheel for 454. I used old muscle car exhaust manifolds...shouldn't be too much difference to later model ones, to keep the exhaust somewhat close to the engine. I didn't have too, but wanted to and did move the frame horn motor mounts ahead on the frame and then used GM rubber and captive bolt motor mounts. The big block is a good fit and even clears a civvy heater.
I'll 2nd spicres comments...seen his truck and he has laid it out perfectly...fits great even with a stock type fan.
If you are going to do it...thats the way!!
brute4c
The oil cooler lines aren't necessary but very much a good idea
spicergear, where did you get the motor mounts? and did you use the factory horns that came in the truck. mine have been cut and moved forward about 2 inches. my local parts guy said he didnt have anything to match up with those mounts. thanks larry.
Larry, first, get a set of horns off a FSJ (wagoneers easy to find). They're welded across the top but easy to grind off. They bolt up to either the forward location for 6cyl and the rear for 8cyl, or vice versa. Spicer will hook you up w/adapter mount info, but it doesn't get much easier than his way, and it works great.
tacoma,thanks for the reply. till i found this website, i thought i had the only m715 left. i am going with the 454 as that is what i have. would like to know more about spicers tranny though. that overdrive sounds great. i have an sm465 right now thats going in. my motor mounts are whats holding me up right now. thanks larry
I'm glad to hear you have the room spicergear. I had planned on moving it as far forward as possible too. I was also planning on building my own mounts. Does your steering shaft go under or over your new mounts. It looks to me like that could be a clearance issue, but i guess only time will tell. If i'm correct the radiators with an AT have a few cooling rows at the bottom for the AT fluid, could i use these as my oil line cooler, or would they just clog? I really don't want to have the additional lines ran, but sounds like they're needed.
Dan
Larry: since Tom is slow in posting today hahahah I'll tell you about the mounts, from memory: they're plates with the Chevy mount on one end, and holes to mate up to the stock mounts on the other. Super simple, cheap, and extremely functional. He's got pics somewhere!
TOM, LARRY NEEDS MOTOR MOUNT PICTURES!!! hehe.
Dan,
My experience is with a 6.2 diesel but I believe the bellhousing, motormounts and overall block size are about the same as the 454.
I used a GM pickup bellhousing bolted up to the T98 tranny using an Advance Adapter (Novak's adapter would also work fine). I raised the engine up high enough to clear the stock M715 motormount horns and then fabricated a simple mount using a 4" square plate with a piece of pipe welded to it. I cut down the Chevy motor mounts, drilled new holes in them and everthing bolted right in. You can see a close up of part of my motormounts in the Member's Gallery under Rollie715. The valve covers hit the firewall so I took a sledge hammer and dented them in a bit (the firewall, not the valve covers :) ). If I didn't have a 4" body lift it may have been much tighter. I have a civilian firewall mounted heater and it cleared everything including my turbo manifild. The engine sits back enough that I added about 4" spacers to move the radiator back to fit the fan correctly. I needed to modify the clutch linkage cross shaft to clear the manifold and oil cooling lines. The stock steering shaft and pto winch shaft all had plenty of clearance.
Hope this helps. I'm guessing the 454 would be a similar project to bolt up to the stock T98 tranny.
Rollie
I'll agree w/Rollie on that. The real question, and not to irritate anyone about it, is why bother adapting the stock tranny when there are so many cheap 2wd 465's out there. Every manual truck made in the 70's by GM had the 465 (practically). For adapter money you could get the tranny, and all new ujoints and short shaft.
heheh.
guys, i really appreciate all the information. hopefully i am smart enough to make it work. welder, torch,check, oh yeah, great big hammer, time to go to work. thanks. larrywatkins.
Larry, I haven't tried this but it looks close. Look at a motor mount for a 67-72 chevy truck with a small block. they look like they would bolt to stock frame horns and then you could move the horns forward/backward to get correct firewall clearance. these mounts are simple they bolt to block and then bolt to frame with one large verticle bolt. I would probably replace the frameside bolt with a stud and grind a point on the frame side to line up easier. they are one piece and don't require a companion bracket like '73 and up mounts.
I'm back...Larry, the motor mounts Tacoma speaks of were the ones I had used for a small block mule motor while I was rebuilding my 427. because they use the stock trucks rubber mount and horn, I though a big motor may break loose so I went with a captured pin GM design. I move my horns up by almost the width of them, then welded the new GM mount to a flat plate, then welded the plate to the frame horn. I figure they take about 100,000miles to wear out in stock form, so I'm not concerned with it being welded in. Oh, I reread my previous post and need to edit a line, my front pumpkin does, in fact, touch the six quart truck pan I have at full articulation. I put grease on the pumpkin and am fine with it.
Tom.... grease on the pumpkin?? LOL that's the most ghetto fix yet! I salute you sir! hehe.
tech content: circle track pans are lower profile and may even work better off road. Well, not circle track, but road racing, whatever: the ones w/the kickouts and baffles.
Sometimes they require the use of special built shorter oil pumps because of their low pro design and on the driver's side, sometimes you'll run into a filter issue with the kickout. A buddy of mine ran across this. You'd also need to cut off the passenger side kickout if the truck is of stock suspension. It's good stuff though...and would probably work great on a small block. The pickup on a truck pan/pump is aimed toward the driver's side of the pan. You like the Ghetto Grease huh? :) The pan could easily be plunked to clear with a hand maul, but...eh...it ain't broke!!
Five Quart chevelle pan might free up some room
ahhh.. self-clearancing works fine.. just go slow so you don't tear the pan. Oh wait, you've got some monster pan, that won't work. LOL
You should SEE the two monster pans I have. An aluminum pan with notched pan rails and the sump that goes from the back to about 6" from the front where it finally steps up again. I also have a CAST IRON pan of same description that weighs about 80#!
Dave, yeah a chevelle or 1st gen camaro pan would be the ticket. Could probably even get away with a deeper sump...uh, somthing Moroso style 8qt may work nice. I think my truck pan on my 427 is 7qt to give me an 8qt system.
I suspect I might take a gander at those in a few months here heheh. Hmm. Yes, I think so!
spicergear. did you use a duece tranny? i have found a source for parts close to me. also do you remember how far you had to move the horns. mine have been cut and moved and welded again. they are in sad shape as someone torched three of the holes out the size of a fifty cent piece. i guess if i weld the plates to the horns it should not matter. thanks larry
Larry, I moved the passenger side horn forward the width of itself and moved the driver's side about 3/4 the width of itself. You can move the passenger side further ahead because you don't have to worry about steering shaft clearance. I then welded plates onto the mount of the horn, then tacked in a captive pin style GM motor mount. I've got about 3-4" clearance from the HEI to the firewall and have radiator in stock location with mechanical fan and four groove pulley on harmonic balancer. Plenty of room in these trucks. Yes, I used a deuce tranny, 3053A model from behind a multifuel engine. 3053A have a 15% overdrive in them. The older yet standard style REO deuce trucks had gas motors with a 3052 non overdrive tranny. Skip them, as you're not gaining anything but weight. I made up a rear tranny mount and set it right on the factory 715 tranny mount on the stock crossmember. It's a hefty tranny that surprisingly fits well, but will require some fab work.
spicergear, ok i think that i have the mounts figured out, but my stteering shaft was rubbing on the horns with the stock box. i have the saginaw box in now and the shaft is only clearing the horns by 3/16s . i am worried if the frame flexs i will tear something apart. my truck was made in 5 of 67. wondered if my truck could be different due to an earlier manufacture? have you heard of anyone else having this problem? i can always torch a hole for it to go thru, but i really hate to do that. thanks for all the help. by the way if you need duece parts, this guy is only an hour away from me. what bellhousing did you use? thanks for letting me pick your brain. larry