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Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by awest on Aug 11, 2006, 8:37am
I was wondering where i could find some disc brakes to put on here. I would like to convert it to 4 wheel Disc instead of Drum. Currie Enterprises contacted me this morning to ask me if i wanted that put on my axles for an extra 3200 bucks. So I was wondering if anyone on here has converted over to disc brakes or at least the front. If so where, and how much. I just think 3200 is a bit high.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by alosix on Aug 11, 2006, 8:38am
Depends on the disks for the price.. A bolt on brembo setup for my WRX is over $4k new.
Are they actually looking at making an adapter setup for stock M7x5 axles?
Jason
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by awest on Aug 11, 2006, 8:43am
Brembo, wow that would be nice, but maybe a little bit overkill too. I was looking for some nice brakes like maybe off of a F350 or Dodge 2500-3500. That way i can get some cross drilled and sloted ones and then the single piston or possiable dual wont be so bad. I was trying to keep everything under a grand on the brakes. Currie Enterprises is charging me enough already to have both of my axles done completely over and braced.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by alosix on Aug 11, 2006, 8:50am
If they're already at Currie getting work done. I'd probably see if you could get them to get a late model spindle setup to fit so you can use a 8 lug wheel + some sort of std brakes. To me, $3200 for them to do that front and rear isn't all that bad.
Jason
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by barrman on Aug 11, 2006, 9:01am
This has been discussed and hashed over for years. A kit used to be available that would convert the stock axles to disc brake. About $1000 an axle was the cost. That manufacturer went away, but some are claiming they are back in business.
So, you can spend somewhere between $2000-$3200 for disc brakes. You still have axles that even though they say Dana 60 and Dana 70 on them are about as strong if not a little weaker than modern Dana 44 axles. Plus, your options are open or Detroit Locker. Another thread Thursday mentioned the availabilty of selectible lockers for the stock axles. I haven't heard of anybody actually making them work in these axles, so I won't comment on them. The point is that the stock axles are not as good as you might think they are. Especially, if you can find 1 ton GM axles D60/14bolt for less than the cost of just putting on disc brakes.
Think through what you are going to use the truck for. I still have the stock axles because the XZL tires are as big as I want to go, I like the lock ring wheels, do more street than off road driving and have a spare set of axles to replace what I do break.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by fisherman on Aug 11, 2006, 9:10am
Man are they gonna gold plate them for you? I got my front disc brakes from ugly truckling guy in Oregon. Did the install myself. Was around $700.00 for everything.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by alosix on Aug 11, 2006, 9:12am
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Man are they gonna gold plate them for you? I got my front disc brakes from ugly truckling guy in Oregon. Did the install myself. Was around $700.00 for everything.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Currie doing axle work is always $$.
Jason
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by tacomainoh on Aug 11, 2006, 10:54am
Any money spent on the stock axles, unless you're restoring it, is money wasted IMNSHO.
For less that the cost of new BRAKE SHOES you can get a 44/14bolt in many areas. And the 44 is probably stronger.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by robertcowan on Aug 11, 2006, 11:19am
helitool is aand has been making these kits for years. 99% of the m715 guys wont spend the money for them though. helitools brake kits are the best way to go for disc brake with stock axles. i was going to make them if they went out of business but since there still in business i wont it would be bad business. http://www.uglytruckling.com/
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by bluesman2a on Aug 11, 2006, 12:10pm
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I was wondering where i could find some disc brakes to put on here. I would like to convert it to 4 wheel Disc instead of Drum. Currie Enterprises contacted me this morning to ask me if i wanted that put on my axles for an extra 3200 bucks. So I was wondering if anyone on here has converted over to disc brakes or at least the front. If so where, and how much. I just think 3200 is a bit high.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
So let's talk numbers here, based on my experience:
CUCV Axles $1500 delivered.
All new seals/bearings/u-joints front-rear $200
New Kingpin kits $100
New standard black rock crawler 8 lug wheels (5 of them) $160
1410 upgraded yokes $200
All new disc brake hardware front/rear and brackets $300
============
$2460
But that's with STANDARD parts than can be replaced off the shelf.
But that's on a modern axle that can get replacement parts from any auto parts store.
But that's on a king-pin front.
But that's on an axle I can get spools/lockers for less than $500 each.
But that's on an axle I can get a selection of gearsets for.
But that's with wheels I can beat the crap out of then go out and buy a brand new one for under $100 instead of mucking with custom crap.
In case you haven't guessed, I'm a big fan of standard, cause cu$tom $tuff will leave you $tranded in the wood$ and co$t more to get fixed if/when it break$.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by tacomainoh on Aug 11, 2006, 12:47pm
and using a 3/4t D44 saves at least a grand on that.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by fisherman on Aug 11, 2006, 2:58pm
What is Currie Enterprises doing to your axles? Are they modifying your stock axles? Or are they building something custom for you? Just curious Fisherman
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by kwai on Aug 11, 2006, 3:11pm
Based on my experiences with guys with M715's most want to modify them and don't care about keeping them stock. If you go to a powerwagon site, those guys are anal-retentive about keeping their junk stock.
If you want front disk brakes, Ray at Helitool has the kits for $595+shipping. As of last month, when I spoke with him he didn't have any rear disk brake kits available (and apparently doesn't plan to make them any time soon).
If you want a truck you can wheel and drive daily, the best option in my opinion is to swap in CUCV axles and a chevy SB or BB motor, SM465/NV4500 and NP205. Parts are easily available and the strength of the parts is better than stock.
Just my $0.02,
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by tacomainoh on Aug 12, 2006, 10:25pm
Barry hasn't sold his yet because we're all a bunch of cheap buggers. hahahha
eh, anyone who wants to put discs on stock axles, more power to you. It will cost a lot, but hey, if that's what makes you happy, you want to keep the stock rims and look, and most of the equipment, this is America and I"m happy for you. When every single truck is modified, no one will know what a stock one is.
Other than that though, MODIFY!!!! so you can use it, safely.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by k8icu on Aug 13, 2006, 11:14am
There is nothing wrong with the operation and safety of the stock truck. Frankly I don't know why so many people want to modify the truck. If you want a modern truck go buy one. If you want a 40 year old Army truck then that is what you've got.
That being said I'd love to modernize a old army turck but keep it looking stock...:) But understand that my thinking would be along the lines of what if the army decided back in 19-- what ever to keep this truck in production but made upgrades to it along the way. i.e. M35, m35a1,m35a2, m35a3 and so on. What would a M37, M715, M211 look like today? I guess I'm trying to make a Tom Clancey novel out of a truck. Lots of fiction with some hints of truth.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by tacomainoh on Aug 13, 2006, 11:17am
uh, actually a single circuit master cylinder is not all that safe. So there.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by k8icu on Aug 13, 2006, 4:51pm
If you keep your truck maintained it is....so there back...ptptptptptptptptptptptp!
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by tacomainoh on Aug 13, 2006, 5:00pm
Enlighten us on proper master cylinder maintenance.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by kwai on Aug 13, 2006, 5:05pm
Uh, replace it with a dual-reservoir version when it doesn't stop the truck anymore. LOL
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by brute4c on Aug 13, 2006, 6:22pm
Flush the whole system every year with all new brake fluid....
It helps....but isnt perfect of course....no safety margin....thus the Federal mandate in 1967 that all vehicles built from then forward be equipped with dual circuit masters for safety....note the entire G890 series, M715, M724, M725, M726, etc. had single circuit masters....laws are meant to be broken right?
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by robertcowan on Aug 13, 2006, 9:27pm
BRUTE IS RIGHT, BRAKE FLUID IS A MAGNET FOR MOSTITURE AND THIS IS WHAT KILLS THE BRAKE COMPONENTS. EVERY TIME YOU CHANGE YOUR OIL IF YOU SUCK THE M/C EMPTY AND REFILL IT WITH NEW BRAKE FLUID YOUR SYSTEM WILL LAST FOR YEARS. ALSO 90% OF WHEEL CYL. BLOWOUTS ARE CAUZED FROM IMPROPER BRAKE SHOE ADJUSTMENT OR NOT ADJUSTING EM THUS PUSHING OUT TO FAR ON WHEEL CYLS.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by tacomainoh on Aug 13, 2006, 9:42pm
Kwai is correct: and hopefully you won't kill yourself or someone else before you get to that point.
It is my personal, deeply held conviction that dual master cylinders are the only way to go, stock truck or not.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by k8icu on Aug 13, 2006, 10:34pm
Switch to silicone break fluid and you'll cut down on the corosion.
The point is my pointed head friend that there are plenty of vehicles on the road that have single systems most of them historical vehicles that drive with no problem.
The only area that I say screw keeping it stock is the area of break lights and turn signals. There I like to update as much as possible.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by kwai on Aug 13, 2006, 11:19pm
Yep. That guy behind you will be able to see your brake lights just fine when you rear-end the guy in front of you. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
As long as the master cylinder is working fine and doesn't have 40 yo rubber seals that are rotted out, either type is good. I believe that most guys go with the dual reservoir for (1) availability and (2) safety.
Just my $0.02.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by tacomainoh on Aug 13, 2006, 11:29pm
I dont' trust them. There is really no way to tell what's going on inside the master cylinder, short of tearing it down. When they go, they GO. No warning signs.
Hence, a liability I won't allow on my own vehicles.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by binfordm715 on Aug 14, 2006, 9:10am
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Yep. That guy behind you will be able to see your brake lights just fine when you rear-end the guy in front of you. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Kwai, the brake lights work on brake fluid pressure, so if you've lost pressure, you've lost brake lights too!
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I dont' trust them. There is really no way to tell what's going on inside the master cylinder, short of tearing it down. When they go, they GO. No warning signs.
Hence, a liability I won't allow on my own vehicles. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Yup. Remember what happened to mine last week. My brakes worked GREAT!!! Then my stock spare tire holder came off the bolt and ripped out my brake line as it bent over the rear axle. Sure it was my fault (the bolt wasn't tightened down), but the point is, something happened to one brake line and I lost the entire system. Brake lights included.
Upgrades for safety and strength are possible and probably smart. Not really necessary, but not stupid to do either. YMMV.....
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by davea on Aug 14, 2006, 10:09am
Kuhle, in my opinion, spending that much money on stock axles is like putting lipstick on a corpse. You are still left with obsolete axles that are not as strong nor as easy to find parts for as modern Dana axles. Plus, stock axles have a wheel mounting pattern that was designed in Lower Slobovia before the revolution. Wheels for them are available in custom made only. Bob, I disagree with you about the quality of modified trucks. I am not an automotive engineer, but I can build a truck that will pass the sniff test of most builders. I think that this board has gone a long way toward educating potential builders in the right and wrong way to modify a truck. We are blessed here with guys who are both skilled fabricators and are willing to share their knowledge. To downgrade their work is not right given the quality of the trucks they have built.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by brute4c on Aug 14, 2006, 12:19pm
If one isnt going to go with much bigger than stock tires and one is not going to do high horsepower or torque input while doing hard core wheelin, stock axles work fine....I plan to keep them in mine with mods as they are stock for the truck and I dont plan to overload them with power or stress...but not everyone wants such limits...
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by bluesman2a on Aug 14, 2006, 1:01pm
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">If one isnt going to go with much bigger than stock tires and one is not going to do high horsepower or torque input while doing hard core wheelin, stock axles work fine....I plan to keep them in mine with mods as they are stock for the truck and I dont plan to overload them with power or stress...but not everyone wants such limits...</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I think that's a VERY fair and ultimately true statement.
My limitation wasn't mainly there (at least not when the insanity started), but rather the fact that I require parts resources to be readily available not limited to Ebay and some guy who knows a guy in a place who has the stuff. Specialty markets suck.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by robertcowan on Aug 14, 2006, 1:28pm
I,AM WITH BRUTE
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by fsjguy on Aug 14, 2006, 11:28pm
Getting a little more back ON topic. Can anyone give me a report on how they liked the Helitool brake conversion? I'm thinking of going for the fronts at least. I already have a nice set of one piece wheels and tires for the stock bolt pattern, so I don't want to hear anyone telling me how it's cheaper to go standard 8 bolt pattern! LOL!
Also, if I can find out exactly what MC/pedal configuration worked best, that would be great. I am interested in having power brakes, too. I don't want to go hydroboost, I'd like to stay vac. assist. Would FSJ booster and MC work, since they are disc/drum system? TIA!
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by bluesman2a on Aug 15, 2006, 7:37am
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Also, if I can find out exactly what MC/pedal configuration worked best, that would be great. I am interested in having power brakes, too.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
I'm using a pedal from an FSJ (auto, it bolts up pretty easy) and a 68 corvette MC (started with stock brakes/axles and it was good) and going to Disc/Disc. For your situation, I would look at one of the late model FSJ boosters as a possibility as well.
Re: Where can i find Disc Brakes
Post by fisherman on Aug 15, 2006, 8:21am
My Helitool brake kit was an easy install, I will be going non power dual master from a one ton chevy. Robert Cowan explained to me what I needed to do. It sounded pretty straight forward, using the stock pedal. I'll give him a call if I get stuck when I get to that point. Don't know how it works and won't for awhile. Lots of work left before it will be driveable.