teking : "Redye" canvas top

"Redye" canvas top
Post by teking on Aug 7, 2006, 12:39pm

.... ok so I hosed up my top trying to get mildew outta it. Called Beachwood and they said that they can't redye it because they get the canvas already OD. They said they use to get OD Canvak but couldn't get it anymore.

So ... I called the Canvak manufacturer (BUCKEYE FABRIC FINISHING COMPANY). They said they nolonger make the OD Canvak. Bummer. But they DID SAY the following ...

They said all Canvak is is mineral spirits and WAX!!! When the spirits evaporate it leaves wax (thus water proof)
I was instructed that all I have to do to put the color back in my top is add PAINT!! I said, like the body paint that I have that is Olive Drab color from Gillespe? They said YEP!!!! When the preservative (mineral spirits) dries it will leave paint and wax!

Anyone ever heard of such a thing? I have a call into Beachwood to confirm.

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by kaiser715 on Aug 7, 2006, 12:49pm

i've heard about the wax disolved into mineral spirits or turpentine. Never heard of adding paint to it, though. Might work. Got a scrap canvas to try it out on?

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by brute4c on Aug 7, 2006, 12:51pm

Interesting....faded top restore anyone?

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by teking on Aug 7, 2006, 12:53pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">i've heard about the wax disolved into mineral spirits or turpentine. Never heard of adding paint to it, though. Might work. Got a scrap canvas to try it out on?</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I figured I try it out on the back side of the top that hangs down over the rear of the cab.

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by binfordm715 on Aug 7, 2006, 12:54pm

That's sort of how I waterproofed a piece of undyed canvas--1 lb of melted paraffin wax in 1/2 gallon of gasoline (or 2 lbs wax to 1 gallon of gas, etc.), then soaked the canvas. Didn't think to try paint. Hmmmm....

Worked like a charm though. Gas smell gone in a few weeks, didn't seem to be much more flamable than before and held over a gallon of water for hours over a bucket with just some drips getting through.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by teking on Aug 7, 2006, 1:17pm

Well just got off the phone with Beachwood. Spoke to Rich. He said he can see no reason why that would not work. He said in-fact the old WWII paint was mineral spirits based.

Now a call to Gillespie because Army Jeep Parts (http://www.armyjeepparts.com) where I get my paint states:

AJP recommends the reduction of Gillespie Coatings with a
SYNTHETIC ENAMEL REDUCER. This is accomplished at a ratio of 2:1,
paint to reducer. Most brands are fine, such as NAPA or PPG, etc; just as
long as its a SYNTHETIC ENAMEL REDUCER.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by teking on Aug 7, 2006, 1:30pm

Well got of the phone with Gillespie. They said that I could definitely use mineral spirits but that it would just take longer to dry. HOWEVER, they said they do not recommend "painting" canvas because it would crack when the canvas flexed. Duh , no nuts Sherlock. I don't think they understood that I was thinning out so much that all I wanted was to color the canvas.

We will see ...

Canvak manufacturer = YES
Beachwood Canvas = YES
Gillespie = NO

So canvas experts say YES. Paint experts say no. Hmmmmmm .....

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by elwenil on Aug 7, 2006, 2:01pm

I'm with you, I don't think Gillespie understood what you are doing. Since you are not doing much more than coloring the wax coating, I think it would work pretty well.

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by fisherman on Aug 7, 2006, 2:19pm

I would warm the beeswax or whatever wax to melt, add mineral spirits to thin to the point it will be workable, add a little gillespie in color of choice to add a little color. Keep the stuff warm while applying and let dry. I would use no more paint than what it would take to color the wax and mineral spirits. I think it would work fine. Keep us posted and maybe take some pictures to post up for us. Anyone got any tan gillespie?

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by fisherman on Aug 7, 2006, 2:23pm

I was also thinking that I used to make a finish I used on wood. I'm sure it would work here to. Beeswax, and linseed oil. Melt together and they make a beautiful wax oil finish for wood. I bet a little gillespie to add color and that combo might work great to. Linseed oil is a base for a lot of oil base paint products. It should dissolve or also thin gillespie paint. Just another idea.

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by k8icu on Aug 7, 2006, 8:36pm

I would think that you would need to thin the paint with the miniral spirits (paint thinner) first to get it translucent. I.e green colored miniral spirits then mix the ratio of wax. But with that said wouldn't it be easier to just color the canvac? Get a gall of that and and a few drops of OD paint to it and away you go....:)

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by k8icu on Aug 7, 2006, 8:38pm

Oh and not to be picky as I'm the worlds worst speller...:) but shouldn't it be redye instead of redie as to die again....isn't once enough and wouldn't the estate tax be a killer if you died twice?...:)

Re: "Redie" canvas top
Post by devildog on Aug 7, 2006, 8:58pm

How about going to a candle making place and buy some coloring used for candles. This should disolve into the solvent of the canvac. May have to experiment with the color.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by teking on Aug 8, 2006, 6:57am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I would think that you would need to thin the paint with the miniral spirits (paint thinner) first to get it translucent. I.e green colored miniral spirits then mix the ratio of wax. But with that said wouldn't it be easier to just color the canvac? Get a gall of that and and a few drops of OD paint to it and away you go....:)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

That was the idea I posed originally in my thread. The intent is to put paint in the Canvak.


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">
So ... I called the Canvak manufacturer (BUCKEYE FABRIC FINISHING COMPANY). They said they nolonger make the OD Canvak. Bummer. But they DID SAY the following ...

They said all Canvak is is mineral spirits and WAX!!! When the spirits evaporate it leaves wax (thus water proof). I was instructed that all I have to do to put the color back in my top is add PAINT!! I said, like the body paint that I have that is Olive Drab color from Gillespe? They said YEP!!!! When the preservative (mineral spirits) dries it will leave paint and wax!

Anyone ever heard of such a thing? I have a call into Beachwood to confirm.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by k8icu on Aug 9, 2006, 6:38am

The question becomes then how much paint is needed to a gallon of Canvak and do you need to thin the paint first? Keep us posted on how it works. Do you have some scrap canvas to try it on first so if you don't get a good mix your not messing up your top? Pics would be nice too....:)

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by teking on Aug 9, 2006, 6:52am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">The question becomes then how much paint is needed to a gallon of Canvak and do you need to thin the paint first? Keep us posted on how it works. Do you have some scrap canvas to try it on first so if you don't get a good mix your not messing up your top? Pics would be nice too....:)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Doesn't need to be thinned first. Thats what they were telling me ... the paint can be mixed directlywith the Canvak because it is mineral spirits based. Don't need to worry about messing up my top because I already did that. I had mildew on my top and tried to clean it. The canvas cleaner I used took the dye out of the top.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by binfordm715 on Aug 9, 2006, 12:53pm

If the Canvak itself is mineral spirits with paraffin in it, the paint ought to be thinned by the mineral spirits, eh?

Rats, I had my old faded seat covers you could have used to test some different concentrations of paint on, but I tossed 'em.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by thetroublemaster on Aug 9, 2006, 4:04pm

I have a gallon of clear canvak at home. I could check to see what the base is. It sure works well!!

al.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by teking on Aug 9, 2006, 4:50pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I have a gallon of clear canvak at home. I could check to see what the base is. It sure works well!!

al.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

yeah I already have a couple myself. The manufacturer told me directly that the product was mineral spirits and wax.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by damule on Aug 9, 2006, 7:01pm

hey ,
I am not an x pert on restoring canvas but I do know of a place that I send my deer hides to. They turn them into leather, then die them to the color I want. Maybe they would know something about the chemicals that it would take to solve your prob.
Just a thought.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by k8icu on Aug 9, 2006, 9:04pm

Most leather dyes are alchid based. Hence why they call them spirit dyes. If Canvak told you to pour the paint right in then do it. My concern was how much paint to a gallon of Canvak. Is it 5oz or a quart? You get what I'm saying. When does it become paint with wax in it instead of wax with coloring? That is why Gillispie poo poo your idea that the paint would flake off the canvas. They were thinking paint like would go on the rest of the vehicle with wax in it. Not wax suspended in a liquid till that has coloring. That was the point I was trying to make on how much to put in.

Re: "Redye" canvas top
Post by teking on Aug 11, 2006, 8:56am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Most leather dyes are alchid based. Hence why they call them spirit dyes. If Canvak told you to pour the paint right in then do it. My concern was how much paint to a gallon of Canvak. Is it 5oz or a quart? You get what I'm saying. When does it become paint with wax in it instead of wax with coloring? That is why Gillispie poo poo your idea that the paint would flake off the canvas. They were thinking paint like would go on the rest of the vehicle with wax in it. Not wax suspended in a liquid till that has coloring. That was the point I was trying to make on how much to put in.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Yeah ... I wouldn't think it would that much paint. I definitely do NOT want to be painting the canvas.