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engine conversions
Post by craven on Jul 29, 2006, 9:22am
I have not had time to search all the boards for this content yet. I would like to know what is more cost effective, 230 new or rebuilt or going with a conversion. This truck would be used for daily driving, some towing, and 4wheeling.
Re: engine conversions
Post by xjchief on Jul 29, 2006, 12:40pm
Not the 230. It's a PITA to get anything for. Long term you'll be way better off in anything else.
Re: engine conversions
Post by gimpyrobb on Jul 29, 2006, 2:59pm
The most common and cheapest motor is the gm 350. I willnot use mine for a daily driver so I went with a 366. It was cheap and now I can put in any chevy once it blows up.
Re: engine conversions
Post by k8icu on Jul 29, 2006, 5:22pm
the gm 350 small block seems to be the most common swap. Of course there is the need for an addaptor, but there is lots of info out there on that. Then again any SBC engine will work.
Re: engine conversions
Post by compexp on Jul 29, 2006, 9:37pm
i used a chebby 350 with an adapter, but upon reflection, i probably would have pulled an entire motor/tranny combo from a donor truck (2wd) and gotten my mid-shaft re-done to the correct length to match.
Alternatively, pull a motor/tranny/xfer combo from a passenger-drop donor and re-do the mounts. will save $$$ and time.
Preferably, pick a donor with an overdrive tranny to help offset the 5.88 gears.
Re: engine conversions
Post by hewl35 on Jul 29, 2006, 10:28pm
How about one with a complete drive train swap or rolling chassis. I have one with a complete frame swap from a 1984 3/4 ton K20 6.2 turbo diesel, 700r4 transmission with a 208 transfer case. The front axle is currently a heavy duty Dana 44 with disc brakes but will be replaced with a Dana 60 in the next week or so if the temps drop below 100. The axle ratio is 4.11. The rear axle is 14 bolt full floater. It also has a hydro-boost system for power brakes and power steering. It's a good way to go if you just want to drive and not have worry too much about parts availability.
Re: engine conversions
Post by tacomainoh on Jul 29, 2006, 10:30pm
The cheapest way to go is to grab a complete GM drivetrain (or whatever you prefer, I like GM because of the massive interchange and the easy TBI), and swap it in. Around here, you can get good running engines for the price of the adapter, and for about $100 more you can get a tranny that fits with no issues.
There will be minor crossmember and driveshaft issues, but if you want to run your truck as a DD, there is no other way that makes any kind of sense.
The 230, before everyone says how good it is, was DUMPED in civilian vehicles years before the 715 was offered to the military. I am not sure why they did that to the government... but it wasn't good enough for civilians.
Re: engine conversions
Post by k8icu on Jul 30, 2006, 10:55am
Taco,
Why did GM put the 6.2 deisel on the gubment. It was there and fit the specs requested from the gubment. When the Army specked out a replacement truck for the M37 they put out specifications that were similar to the M37. In other words they wanted a replacement that was what they had more or less. So the Gladiator with the 230 fit their needs. It was in their inventory and didn't require a new motor or a retooling.
Re: engine conversions
Post by jeepistdougiowa on Jul 30, 2006, 11:56am
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">
The 230, before everyone says how good it is, was DUMPED in civilian vehicles years before the 715 was offered to the military. I am not sure why they did that to the government... but it wasn't good enough for civilians. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Tac, My step dad actually had a J-10 with a 230 back in the day. He recalls it being a good engine...problem is that everyone here has experiences with 35 year old 230s..they're gonna have some issues. I liken it to a 305 chevy. Engine runs good, does it's job...just everyone wants more ummph....hey, and look at the awesome chevy 327...with it's 6 year production run.
Craven, swap! It's true that the 230 is a pain to get parts for, you'll find most parts stores have to order the parts (if they even can)..other oddities you have to get from ebay or surplus suppliers. Not cool if you're 200 miles from home on your way to an FE.
Re: engine conversions
Post by tacomainoh on Jul 30, 2006, 1:05pm
Joe: Chevy was still using the 6.2 in civilian production. The 230 had been scrapped in Jeeps.
Doug: your step dad did NOT have a J10 w/a 230.
He may have had a J2000 though. hehehehe
I am a huge fan of middle-of-nowhere repairability. And if you have a 230 that runs, and it's not giving you trouble, enjoy it.... while you save up for something else LOL
Re: engine conversions
Post by craven on Jul 30, 2006, 1:11pm
Plenty of good info. Definately things to consider when I go to purchase an M715.
Re: engine conversions
Post by airborne on Jul 30, 2006, 6:21pm
I had a 230 in a 1/2 ton,back in 71 !!!!!!!!! It's not the 230,s fault you spin it to 4000 rpm, for hours on end and it lets go. I think that's just to many rpm,s for long life. My .02!
Re: engine conversions
Post by fireant on Jul 30, 2006, 6:32pm
What about a 360, 304 or other jeep v8? Are these engines relatively easy to repower a 715? Thanks.
Re: engine conversions
Post by tacomainoh on Jul 30, 2006, 7:07pm
yes, yes they are. They can be bolted in using factory parts. Many FSJ parts fit the Mtrucks.
Re: engine conversions
Post by compexp on Jul 30, 2006, 9:45pm
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">What about a 360, 304 or other jeep v8? Are these engines relatively easy to repower a 715? Thanks.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
However, be aware that they won't bolt up to the stock transmission without shortening the input shaft.
Ethan has a 715 with an entire J-truck driveline swapped in.
Re: engine conversions
Post by fsjguy on Jul 30, 2006, 11:44pm
Yup. I do. Alan in NE did it. Engine mounts bolt right up to the frame. It's real easy to modifiy the FSJ crossmember to bolt onto the M frame. And you "Keep it Jeep" for those who care. <G>
Re: engine conversions
Post by bluesman2a on Jul 31, 2006, 9:00am
I *LIKE* the 360's, but cost/availability of performance parts compared to the 350's is a no-brainer. Take the the 350.
Another down-side to the 360 is that abortion of a timing cover/oil-pump/fuel-pump cover/housing... It's nice to have the dizzy up front to work on it, but I've had severe issues with alignment and eating cam gears on past blocks.
Now on the plus side, you can typically get a full FSJ donor for less than $1000 with a TH400 already mounted in it.
Re: engine conversions
Post by tacomainoh on Jul 31, 2006, 11:21am
.... and that TH400 can have the output swapped and you can use all kinds of Tcases with it.
Re: engine conversions
Post by fireant on Jul 31, 2006, 5:27pm
Thanks guys. I'm new to the conversion thing but am familiar with the 715 (stocker). A guy nearby has an M for sale (blown engine) for about $2K. He also has a 360 donor available (needs rebuild) for $300. I was just thinking that that might be a cool project. I still think the truck is overpriced. Any thoughts? I'm a cheapskate.
FA
Re: engine conversions
Post by jeepistdougiowa on Jul 31, 2006, 5:31pm
$2k for a non running truck? it better be rust free and straight as an arrow IMO.
Re: engine conversions
Post by gregolma715 on Aug 3, 2006, 11:01pm
The 230 is good motor. The M715 is a heavy truck with stiff gears. It works well considering. Underpowered trucks were the norm in those days.
It was used in Argentina for years after the US version was ended. It was even barred frim LeMans because it was beating t he Euro-losers.
The common wisdon is that the idiot mechanics of the day, used to flat heads, panicked.
If so, why? It's a simple engine.
Re: engine conversions
Post by tacomainoh on Aug 3, 2006, 11:07pm
I always say run it if it's working. Dump it when it stops. Parts are drying up.
Re: engine conversions
Post by binfordm715 on Aug 5, 2006, 11:31am
Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I always say run it if it's working. Dump it when it stops.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
'Zactly what I'm doing.....
Re: engine conversions
Post by porkchop on Aug 5, 2006, 3:11pm
That's what I did.
Re: engine conversions
Post by binfordm715 on Aug 5, 2006, 10:06pm
I just hope my 230 lasts longer than yours did, PC!