uscgmatt : dodge 360 engine swap progress

dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by uscgmatt on Jul 16, 2006, 11:10pm

Well I started the engine swap Friday, and yesterday I got it mounted. Its a 360 with sm465 from a 2wd 1ton dodge p.u.. There is going to be some interesting mods but it is doable. It has power steering but it mounts on the outside of the frame, has anybody done this? Bending the shifter will also be fun. here are some pics.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/8...diumtb7.th.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/9...diumqm7.th.jpg

http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/6...diumua7.th.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1...diumfn6.th.jpg

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by compexp on Jul 16, 2006, 11:19pm

You might be able to use a chevy power steering box and the dodge pump. Someone else will have to verify that the pump will work, but I don't know why it wouldn't.

The chevy/jeep (saginaw) box will bolt up.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by uscgmatt on Jul 16, 2006, 11:34pm

The original power steering box mount has been butchered by the fire dept. They bolted a steering box to to a bracket and then welded it to what they did not cut off to make it fit. I had to cut it with a plasma cutter to get to the bolts. I havent found a saginaw box yet but still looking, at least it will fit.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by compexp on Jul 17, 2006, 12:14am

mine came from a '79 J-10 and bolted right up - pitman arm included.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by uscgmatt on Jul 17, 2006, 12:23am

Cool now I know where to start.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by elwenil on Jul 17, 2006, 6:58am

That's about how my 318 fits in there. I to am wondering how much I will have to bend the shifter to get it to clear the dash. I'm thinking a little "dog-leg" should do it. Also, I believe the transmission you have is a NP435. Dodge never used a GM transmission, it was always the New Process Gear transmissions. Your transmission looks the same as the one I have and my similar NP445 in my other Dodge.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by uscgmatt on Jul 17, 2006, 10:59am

How strong are the NP435s? Oh nd how close is the gearing to the stock tranny? Thanks

Matt

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by elwenil on Jul 17, 2006, 11:39am

Gearing on the NP435 can vary a little depending on the year and what model it came out of. Some have a bit of a gap between 2nd & 3rd and some have the gap between 3rd & 4th. All are granny gear 4 speeds with a 1 to 1 4th gear. It's a truck transmission for sure, and is pretty stout. it was also used in many 2 ton trucks as well, so it can handle quite a bit. I've only seen a few with unusual breakage and it was normally the result of built big blocks and abuse. I think it will handle everything a 360 can make and more. I'd say it is every bit as strong as a SM465, and probably a bit stronger in my honest opinion.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by uscgmatt on Jul 17, 2006, 11:58am

Cool. It is out of a 1985 2wd 1ton pick up (I was told).

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by bluesman2a on Jul 17, 2006, 12:08pm

Matt,

If the box mounts outside the frame, I would consider it. You may be able to get around issues with the steering shaft clearing the motor mounts. I've seen that swap done on CJ's and it looked good. Essentially all you have to do is drill the holes and sleeve the frame approppriately.

If you want to go the FSJ route, then you can see some of the stuff I did on mine here:
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/vie...umName=album31

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by bluesman2a on Jul 17, 2006, 12:11pm

On second thought, unless the pic is just at a wierd angle, you already HAVE steering shaft issues, you can see it here on the driver's side:

http://img146.imageshack.us/my.php?i...4mediumqm7.jpg

You'd either have to do a 3 piece shaft, or do your box outside of the frame.... My vote, based on the pics I can see here is: outside the frame.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by elwenil on Jul 17, 2006, 12:12pm

I pulled these numbers off the net since our 85 Truck Service Manual is missing, but they should be correct.

1st Gear - 4.78
2nd Gear - 2.39
3rd Gear - 1.37
4th Gear - 1.00

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by brute4c on Jul 17, 2006, 12:51pm

2nd and 3rd have to be farther apart than that...

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by elwenil on Jul 17, 2006, 12:54pm

Heh, glad someone caught that, lol. It typed it wrong but now it is corrected. Geez, lol.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by brute4c on Jul 17, 2006, 1:07pm

I found a page that referenced the close ratio version...the ratios El listed above, and the wide ratio version:

1st: 6.69
2nd: 3.34
3rd: 1.79
4th: 1.00

Dont know what applications or anything one would look in to find that version but it has that granny low like stock...a little steeper even...

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by elwenil on Jul 17, 2006, 1:11pm

It depends on what it was in and the year. I gave the close ratio numbers since that is what is more common in a 2WD.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by brute4c on Jul 17, 2006, 1:13pm

I would hope so!!

That wide ratio would be fun in a 2wd half ton daily driver....

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by elwenil on Jul 17, 2006, 1:20pm

You should see my NP445 wide ratio version in my W100. It's designed for trucks with low axle gears and putting it in a truck with a 383 and 3.55 gears makes it sort of interesting. You can pull out in 2nd but it is a little rough. I normally just run granny for a half a second to get it rolling. Most people just think I'm being annoying because of the stack exhaust, lol...

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by uscgmatt on Jul 17, 2006, 1:49pm

Bluesman2a, I was just looking at the truck and decided on the outside steering because of the mounts. It looks fairly easy to mount. The fun part will be relocating the shock mount.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by k8icu on Jul 18, 2006, 9:02pm

matt,

Two things...First you could do your sifter like they do on big trucks and I think M37s did . You'de have a shaft sticking straight up out of the trans then the bent shifter that has the end made to clamp onto the shaft. You could try a shifter out of a big old ford truck or something like that or even one out of an M37.

Second thing where did you get your truck. I've only seen one other truck that had a gas heater in it and that was the one I had 15 year ago....I'm just wondering....

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by uscgmatt on Jul 18, 2006, 9:39pm

I bought it from a friend in Cordova. He bought it a few years before that from the Cordova Fire Dept. Both this and the parts truck had them. The parts truck also had a fuel line into the bed on the drivers side. In the winter time with the heater on you have to drive with the windows down or you cook, although im sure it would be nice in antartica.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by binfordm715 on Jul 19, 2006, 8:10am

Here's what Joe's talking about. This is the best picture I have of it, but you can see how the stick attaches to the top of the tranny. The stick then makes a gentle arch upward. Seems this would be the way to go, for sure.....

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/4658/m37shifterqh8.jpg

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by elwenil on Jul 19, 2006, 9:47am

Hmmm, interesting. I hadn't thought of that. Might have to try that if my redneck bending method goes awry.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by bluesman2a on Jul 19, 2006, 10:29am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Bluesman2a, I was just looking at the truck and decided on the outside steering because of the mounts. It looks fairly easy to mount. The fun part will be relocating the shock mount.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

If you have a bender, shock mounts are easy. Bend a U, and put 2 spud mounts on the rail...

When mounting that box, I would put it as far forward as feasible, that way your drag link will clear your tie rod. On mine it is VERY close.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by elwenil on Jul 19, 2006, 10:44am

On the shock hoop bit, you can also buy kits from several places that have pre-bent hoops and you just cut them to length and weld. Some have ears for the shock mount itself in the kit.

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by bluesman2a on Jul 19, 2006, 2:05pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">On the shock hoop bit, you can also buy kits from several places that have pre-bent hoops and you just cut them to length and weld. Some have ears for the shock mount itself in the kit.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Yep, that's an option too.
http://www.bluetorchfab.com/oscomm/catal....&products_id=72
http://www.bluetorchfab.com/oscomm/c...cktowerkit.jpg

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by k8icu on Jul 19, 2006, 9:02pm

Yep what Tim posted. That is what I was thinking of...:) That's real fun to shift with when it loosens up and the shifter starts to turn on ya...lol

Matt, ok I was thinking it might be my old truck, but I don't think so. Mine got traded to Phil Nelson of Nelson Jeep Parts in Columbiana Ohio. Who he sold it to I don't know. But yes the artic heater will roast you. I didn't mind driving it in the winter with that...:)

Re: dodge 360 engine swap progress
Post by uscgmatt on Jul 21, 2006, 12:50am

I like that shifter setup, thats what I am going to try. But first I need to order some u-joints for the steering shaft. This way I can steer it from one side of the hanger to the other where the welder is located.