elohim1 : Which 502 motor should I use?

Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by elohim1 on Jul 14, 2006, 6:28pm

Will be running Rockwell axles, tH400, NP205, 46" XML'S.
I am leaning towards the 502HT , because I know a guy who has a new one for $5K shipped. He also has extras with it ( Hedman block hugger headers, Intake manifold, Distributor,flywheel.) Everythings new. This motor is torquey way down low, but a little concerned about the 338HP.

Let me here your guys thoughts.

1) 502 HT(high torque) $5200

SDPC Part Number: 88890534
Manufacturer: GM Performance Parts
Horsepower : 338 hp @ 4,500 rpm
Torque : 512 ft/lbs @ 2,850
Compression Ratio : 8.75 to 1
Block : Gen VI Cast Iron 502, 4.468" Bore
Crankshaft : Forged 1053 Steel, 4.000" Stroke
Heads, Chamber Size : Small Oval Port, Gen V, Cast Iron, 118cc
Valves (I/E) : 2.065"/1.720"
Camshaft, Lift (I/E) : Hydraulic Roller, 0.480"/0.483"
Camshaft Duration @ 0.050" I/E : 204/209 degrees
Intake Manifold : Not Included

2)ZZ502 $6500

SDPC Part Number: 12496963
Manufacturer: GM Performance Parts
Horsepower : 502 @ 5200 RPM
Torque : 567 @ 4200 RPM
Compression Ratio : 9.6:1
Block : Gen VI Cast Iron, 4.470" Bore
Crankshaft : Forged Steel, 4.000" Stroke
Heads, Chamber Size : Aluminum Oval Port, 110cc
Valves (I/E) : 2.250" / 1.880"
Camshaft, Lift (I/E) : 0.527" / 0.544"
Camshaft Duration @ 0.050" I/E : 224 / 234
Intake Manifold : Aluminum Dual Plane

3)502 HO $5800

SDPC Part Number: 12568778
Manufacturer: GM Performance Parts
Horsepower : 450 hp @ 5,250 rpm
Torque : 550 ft/lbs @ 3,500
Compression Ratio : 8.75 to 1
Block : Gen VI Cast Iron 4.468" Bore, 4-Bolt Mains
Crankshaft : Forged Steel, 4.000" Stroke
Heads, Chamber Size : Rectangular Port Cast Iron, 118cc
Valves (I/E) : 2.190"/1.880"
Camshaft, Lift (I/E) : Hydraulic Roller, 0.510"/0.540"
Camshaft Duration @ 0.050" I/E : 211/230 degrees
Intake Manifold : Aluminum Dual Plane

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by robertcowan on Jul 14, 2006, 8:53pm

if i was going bbc i,d do # 1. torque at low rpm is the ticket. have you considered a 455 olds ? it has over 500lbs of torque at 1/4 of the cost and is a very hi quality engine and you can use all your components too !
P.S.
I CALLED THE PAINT GUY AND GONNA DO BUSINESS WITH HIM 4 SURE THANKS

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by calpyro on Jul 14, 2006, 11:19pm

I have been considering something along the same line, but cheaper. I have been shopping for a Cadillac 500 used to drop into a M37 as my next project. The reason that I am shopping for a Cadillac motor is that bone stock they have tons of torque, widely available, dirt cheap and only 60 pounds heavier than a Chevy 350.
The fact that you want a Turbo 400 makes it even easier. Cadillac 472 and 500's come connected to that transmission. It is pretty likely that you can get both in good running condition for less than $1000. I just missed out on a 1975 Cadillac with a 500 cid with 67,000 miles that was wrecked for free.
If your interested check out these sites:
http://www.cad500parts.com/index.htm
http://www.500cid.com/

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by calpyro on Jul 14, 2006, 11:27pm

I should have mentioned some of the specifications from on of the web sites that put a bone stock Cadillac 500 with over 100,000 miles on a dyno: "And the dyno says: 493.5 Lb-Ft at 2600 RPM and 302.1 HP at 3600" Not bad for a stock engine on pump gas!

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by thetroublemaster on Jul 14, 2006, 11:29pm

Calpyro, I have an old friend that has a 500 and if I remember right a 472 sitting in his shop. This guy is a better fabricator than most everyone I have ever seen. He converts big trucks to right hand drive with all hand made parts amoung many other talents. He also is the best welder I have ever seen. I am due to call him because I do not know any one who can tackle the welding job I presently have. I will ask him if he still has the motors. I could help getting one of them to a forward air terminal for truck delivery to you. Forward air is crazy reasonable. I will ask if you are serious. It can't hurt while I'm there.

Let me know.

Al.

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by thetroublemaster on Jul 14, 2006, 11:31pm

Elohim, go with the deal you found. A very sweet set up.

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by kwai on Jul 14, 2006, 11:43pm

Torque is king.

Horsepower is for going fast. Torque is for moving mountains.

A F1 motor has lots of horsepower and is great for going fast but won't move much weight.
On the other had a big diesel has lots of torque but won't go very fast.

Basically, HP = torque x rpm

So for pulling lots of weight at low speeds you need torque not horsepower.


I am putting a 2003 chevy 8.1L in my truck. Lots of torque and fuel injected. You can find these for around $3k from salvage yards that part out wrecked RV's, etc.

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by tacomainoh on Jul 15, 2006, 3:09am

I thought this was a mud truck???? in which case, you need RPM.

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by kwai on Jul 15, 2006, 7:24am

you're right. If you are going to running high rpm then a motor that develops peak torque in the high rpm range would be preferred. The HT develops higher torque than then HO at low rpms and has a flatter torque curve.

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by 40grit on Jul 15, 2006, 10:36am

1.)
for $400 more, you can get the ZZ454 I got, it's got the same 512 ft-lbs, but revs up to 450Hp for when you want to sling some mud...

2.)nice motor, almost got that one, but couldn't see the extra $1k for the extra 50Hp and 50ft-lbs being noticeable in a big truck..maybe a street chevelle...

3.)same response as #1, but also, rect port heads are kinda limited,great for high rpm, but lacking a little at low rpm...too big of hole, so no velocity, plus if you go crazy like me and decide to get Edelbrock Pro-flow EFI for it, they don't make it for rect port heads, you have to go all out and get the Victor Pro race EFI that isn't available yet...


i like your similar path...my 715, ZZ454, NV4500, divorced 205, rocks with Ouverson lockers, 46's and 4 wheel disc...

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by elohim1 on Jul 15, 2006, 9:44pm

I just sold my new Edelbrock 3550 pro flow EFI on ebay and made a little $ on it. I was going this route and almost bought a ZZ454 locally. I sold the EFI cause I couldnt swing the $ for a motor. The Holley truck avenger carb will have to do for now.

40 grit , are you happy with the ZZ454?

Can you post some pics?

Thanks for everyones response.

BTW,

Just got back from Haspin at the Steelsoldiers Rally. There were 6 Deuces ,1 5ton,1 M725(gimpyrobb), 1 M715(fred rader), 1 Cherokee, 1 M38, 1 Willys.

Great time!
Buried a few of them in Mud, But no one broke anything.

Re: Which 502 motor should I use?
Post by calpyro on Jul 16, 2006, 12:34am

This may interest you (Not mine):


http://forums.500cid.com/viewtopic.php?t....1ec087f2bbf8de0

Not mine
"I have for sale a custom built Cadillac 500 engine and a custom built Turbo Hydramatic 400. Between the two of them, I have over 5500.00 dollars invested. I have the receipts to back up all of this up. However, I am selling both of them for only three grand! Needless to say, this is a hell of a deal, especially considering the rareness of the variable pitch torque converter on the tranny. I would consider selling the engine or tranny separately. This combo however is designed to give some major performance that you wouldn?t find elsewhere. Just imagine having enough torque off the line to uproot a house, and getting six speeds out of a three-speed transmission to boot!

The Engine is out of a ?73 Fleetwood, was put together in February of 2004, and has set on the engine stand ever since. The Transmission was put together in May of 2003 and has been in storage ever since. If you want full details on everything, I can provide them (i.e. receipts, instructional paperwork, Cam specs, Engine balance card, etc).

Pretty much all of the parts for this engine were bought from Maximum Torque Specialties. I also have some other things that I will give up with the sale of the engine. These are an Edelbrock intake manifold, new water pump, B&M megashifter, exhaust manifolds, and some other misc. parts to help get this engine to turnkey condition.

Here are just some of the specs on the Engine and Transmission:

Engine:

-Cadillac 500 with +0.040 overbore
-10.5:1 compression ratio
-Keith Black Performance Pistons
-Chromoly Rings
-Timing set, Heavy-duty all steel 3 piece set
-Crankshaft Main Bearing set
-Rod Bearings
-Camshaft bearings
-Steel Freeze Plug set
-MT#10 grind Cadillac Performance Camshaft (Comp Cam)
-Hydraulic Lifters
-Gasket set, full engine, Fel-Pro brand
-Fiber intake gasket set
-Heavy Duty Oil Pump
-Valve Stem Seals
-Valve Locks
-Spring Retainers
-Street/Strip Springs
-Shaft Rocker System
-ARP Bolt set for entire Engine
-MSD H.E.I. Distributor
-76 cc heads

Transmission:

-Custom built racing Turbo Hydramatic 400 by www.racetrans.com
-High stall variable pitch torque converter
-34 Element Sprag with Drum
-2.75:1 First Gear ratio
-Rebuilt with all racing components
-Paid 2049.00$
-Never been used!
-Later I installed a TCI Aluminum oil pan, which cost 109.95
-In total, this Transmission is worth 2158.95$

I am located in St. Louis, Missouri, but would be willing to help organize shipping. If you are interested in just the motor or tranny, let me know and I will provide a selling price. Also, if you want pics, just ask. Thanks for your time. "