calpyro : Clocking a NP 205?

Clocking a NP 205?
Post by calpyro on Jun 30, 2006, 2:15pm

Hello,
I am having an adapter for a NP 205 transmission made to mate to a Spicer 3053 transmission. I can have the 205 clocked to accommodate better drive line angles for a spring-over lift. How much angle can the 205 handle and still lubricate the gears properly? I was thinking 2"-3" would help.
Thanks

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by tacomainoh on Jun 30, 2006, 2:30pm

That'll work. ORD's clocked Doubler moves it up at least that. Or are you moving it DOWN??? in that case, use the Chevy-style drop, it hangs way the hell down.

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by calpyro on Jun 30, 2006, 2:51pm

I am having it rotated down. I did a spring-over lift and the angles are at the maximum allowable with a divorced T case. With a 3053 and a mated NP205, the transfer case will move forward and make the angles worse. I have an opportunity to rotate the front drive-line (clock) down to improve it's angle. I was wondering how much of an angle a NP205 can operate and if the angle will effect it's lubrication.

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by elliott on Jun 30, 2006, 3:30pm

It's an all gear case, you should be able clock it anyway you want as long as you can set up the vent where you need it and be able both fill it with oil and check the oil fill.

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by calpyro on Jun 30, 2006, 3:35pm

Thanks,
I give it a go.

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by 40grit on Jun 30, 2006, 5:07pm

I'm thinking along the lines with Elliot, there is supposed to be a certain amount of oil in there, the gears then move it around to lube all the gears, as long as you can get roughly the same amount of oil in there, I don't see any reason it would cause any harm. i'm changing the clocking of my divorced 205 to help out the rockwell front and to try and go below the tranny crossmember, I'm doing the same thing you are...not sure how much I've moved it..

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by jeepistdougiowa on Jun 30, 2006, 5:31pm

Only though I have is getting oil to whatver shaft happens to be the high one...agree that your gears will be fine...not sure if it will slosh enough to get the shaft if you got carried away with the angle...just thinking outloud to spur thought.

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by tacomainoh on Jun 30, 2006, 7:11pm

how big a lift did you use??? to max out the LOOOONG front driveshaft that's got to be pretty tall.......

Down will have more of a negative effect on lubrication. PICS!

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by calpyro on Jun 30, 2006, 8:55pm

I did a spring-over lift. Total lift was equal to the thickness of the front axle. I brought the front down a bit by removing one spring and adding the weight of a SBC and winch. Still the stock U joints will bind. Reducing the distance of the front drive shaft, by joining the trans and transfer case makes the front angle more severe. After posting this question, I read a few articles about clocking transfer cases and nothing was mentioned about lubrication.
However, I want to be sure that I won't be damaging the transfer case.

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by bluesman2a on Jul 1, 2006, 12:51am

You can clock flat. Typically you will need about 3 quarts or so. In order to get that into mine, I bought a PTO cover with a fill plug in it. No problems filling it then.

Note this is with an approximate 1-1.5" body lift, and your exhaust with an SBC will be TIGHT if it's clocked flat (had to come a down a little on mine to clear the the passenger exhaust.

http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0581.jpg

More pics:
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/vie...umName=album43

Check my doubler x-member thread for the full write-up.

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by calpyro on Jul 1, 2006, 9:31am

Nice work! I am looking to have the case dropped approximately 3"-4" inches. I think that it will help with the exhaust routing. Good tip about the PTO fill hole. Where did you get it?

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by luckypabst on Jul 1, 2006, 10:16am

It just occured to me, Chuck's Trucks and a few others are running the NP 200 straight up and down and they claim no ill effects. You might want to contact them for some pointers.

Chris

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by calpyro on Jul 1, 2006, 11:21am

With the NP 200, all of the gears turn, so if the bottom gears are in the oil, you would think that they would slop enough around to lube the whole box.
Now with the 205, only the input and rear output are spinning in 2WD. So.... if I clocked the transfer case down so the oil is below the level of the input and rear output, I assume that they might not have enough lube spinning to lube the box.
Now, stay with me, with the case clocked so that the front output is low, and If I filled the case with enough oil to reach the bottom of the input gears, it seams that there would be adequate lubrication. Just bouncing ideas here. Will it work?

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by luckypabst on Jul 1, 2006, 11:32am

All the gears are turning in there in the 205, but you're only transmitting torque straight through to the rear output.

Chris

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by luckypabst on Jul 1, 2006, 11:38am

For reference:

#19 is the input, one piece gear and shaft, it's meshed to #15 on the large diameter. #4 and the 2 #10's are meshed to #15 as well - as long as the input is spinning, so are all the other gears in the case.

http://www.tbtrans.com/12ff8f60.jpg

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by calpyro on Jul 1, 2006, 1:10pm

Thanks for the clarification

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by elliott on Jul 1, 2006, 4:02pm

The GM 205 comes clocked down ~3"s so you won't have a problem running it that way or probably even an inch lower. IMO, I would do everything I could to clock it flat and work with the driveline angle as opposed to hanging the front output down like a crappy GM 4x4;)

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by calpyro on Jul 1, 2006, 5:30pm

I am open to suggestion and helpful advice. Right now the front U joints bind pretty bad. My only solution so far is to use Tom Woods U Joints http://www.4xshaft.com/Super-Flex.html which have some disadvantages of vibration. When I go to a married transfer case, I will make the angles a bit worse by shortening the front drive line. Which is the lesser evil?

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by elliott on Jul 1, 2006, 8:26pm

Have you checked out http://www.highangledriveline.com/ ? SOA is not that big of a deal and you should be able to clock it flat with the right driveline. Even running your truck with a stock GM clocking really drops your belly which effectively negates a lot of benefit of gaining ground clearance so I'd spend the money for some good drivelines and highangle has 'em.
It will be Highangle/long travel drivelines going in my shorty Gladiator on tons with a doubler.

Re: Clocking a NP 205?
Post by tacomainoh on Jul 2, 2006, 4:59pm

I really can't imagine how your angles are that bad. It's not that big a lift... and the front driveshaft is plenty long.