bluesman2a : Doubler X-Member

Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on May 22, 2006, 12:25am

Background:
SBC to TH400 to 203 to 205 doubler.

I'm running a billet Th400 adapter, doubler kit, and triple-stick shifters all from from www.northwestfab.com

With the way my engine sits, the stock x-member just wasn't gonna cut it. In fact it was perfectly dead center of the wrong spot, so I even had to cut those ears off the frame too. Got everything prepped, removed all the old stuff, did the mock-up and got most of the parts about where I want them. Here's what I have so far:

1 bracket for the bottom of the tranny made out of 0.25" by 4" angle.
1 cross member tube 1.5" for the span.
2 bushings (yj spring-eye bushings)
2 bushing holders made out of 1.75" DOM tube
4 frame ears made from .25" by 4" angle

Pics:
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0515.sized.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0511.sized.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0516.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0524.sized.jpg

triple-stick shifters
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0521.sized.jpg

I still have some more to do, but this at least was a start, and lemme tell you, getting those stock brackets off was a PITA!!! More pics to come as I get stuff finished. I also have to get another mount made for the 205, but hopefully that will be easier.

Anybody else have pics of doubler setups for some ideas, please?

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by binfordm715 on May 22, 2006, 12:27am

Man! I wish I could do work like that.... That's just beautiful, man!

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on May 22, 2006, 12:48am

Thanks for the kind words tim. It's just time and patience (I tend to be running short on both at the moment)... I can't claim any credit on the shifters and stuff, they were store bought. In all honesty though, I know you guys are gonna laugh here, but the tool I think I use the MOST when doing this type of stuff is my combo belt/disc sander. It allows you to put nice rounded corners on stuff, bevel things nicely and take off all those nasty parts where you cut/slice/stab yourself. When I started using it religiously, I saw a real difference in the finished product...

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by robertcowan on May 22, 2006, 8:34am

who bent the tube for you ?

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on May 22, 2006, 9:01am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">who bent the tube for you ?</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I did. I've got a JD2 bender I set up to run off a hydro ram. A while back I used to do a lot of cage work on little jeeps. Now I mainly use it to make stuff like this a little more polished.

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by brute4c on May 22, 2006, 9:17am

Awesome work!!!!!

Dont mind the drool...its a compliment!

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by robertcowan on May 22, 2006, 8:10pm

yea i got one of the beners myslf bt no square tube dies. i built front engine dragsters for a while and those benders were great. i went to florida to the facory nd oiked up mine before dawn one day while i was in the trucking busines, h owner was the only one there and i pid cash andgot killer deal .now your makeing me want squae tbe dies. great work !!!!!!
BOB

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by socal715 on May 22, 2006, 8:31pm

Freakin' sweet work man

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on May 26, 2006, 12:34am

well, I got back to it tonight, mounted the 205, played with clocking and determined that I can't get it up as high as I would like (no room for exhaust). Also started looking at the DS clearance down the passenger side and I've pretty much scrapped my original design for the passenger.

Essentially I'll have to do a like an "S" bend to get the mount up over the top of the front D/S.

SOOOO as in all things Jeep I started looking at stuff and decided it was time to replace the body mounts and go with a 1.5" B/L (one thing always leads to another, doesn't it?) for some better clearance.

SOOOO in trying to figure out how to get the body bolts off, I realized that the US Military has the best friggin design for stuff like this out of any Jeep I have EVER worked on, with those access holes inside the cab. BUT the P.O. had used (and I kid you not) tin and TAR to patch up some rust holes on both sides. One thing always leads to another, doesn't it?

SOOOOO now I've got a serious cancer issue to deal with in the floor-pans. I knew they were bad, but this is ridiculous!

Does it EVER get any better?

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by binfordm715 on May 26, 2006, 12:45am

Um....no?

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by brute4c on May 26, 2006, 9:14am

Hopefully it will get better...but you are gonna have to throw a bunch of time and that green stuff at it first...

With your skills though, it should be awesome on day...

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on May 26, 2006, 11:37am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">With your skills though, it should be awesome on day...</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Thanks for the kind words John, but the days are already in the 3 digits and the green stuff has a much higher number to the left of the comma than I'm liking...

Guess I just need to suck it up and get some more work done this weekend!!!

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on May 29, 2006, 11:29pm

Spent some time on the problem this weekend and decided to just abandon version 1.0 as hopeless/stupid.

Here's version 1.1 -- Took a bit of 1.75" tube, bent a 180 and then center drilled it for 3/4 stand-offs. The little pieces of 3/4 sleeve the bigger tube and ensure the entire assembly sits level. I've managed to get 2 out of the 4 correctly placed, one will need to be cut out and repositioned (moved while welding) and ran out of time to make the last one.

http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0536.sized.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0532.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0527.jpg

Once I have the main frame finished, I'll build some more bushing/tab outriggers like these to support it, and bent correctly to clear the driveshaft. The final step (after I get everything else running will be to skin the whole thing in 3/16 plate for protection.
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0516.jpg

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by brute4c on May 30, 2006, 8:55am

What made the first one hopeless?
Looks like youare going the right way with the 2nd one though..looks plenty stout too!

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on May 30, 2006, 10:13am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">What made the first one hopeless?</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The problem was with the front driveshaft and clearance on the yoke. I had to get far enough back to clear the D/S, or up over the top of the D/S while still leaving some room to run exhaust down that side. The passenger side of this thing is gonna be a TIGHT squeeze to get all this stuff in there...

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by brute4c on May 30, 2006, 10:27am

I see...yeah, the passenger side does get crowded...

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by 40grit on May 31, 2006, 4:46pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">
Does it EVER get any better? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


sure, go buy another Jeep...it will be better until you start looking at the new one closer....


p.s. that's some really nice work...

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on Jun 7, 2006, 1:37am

Got some more work done this weekend and tonight. Just about there, have:
* welded all the tabs to the frame
* plasma/ground off all the old tabs from the frame
* added additional mount points to the body of the xmember
* mocked up and tacked the mount for the 205 and finalized installation for the 205.
* mocked up exhaust
* measured for shafts, rear is 48" on the nose, front is 34 7/8" so those will be ordered this week.

Still need to:
* make tranny lines
* install starter
* finish welding everything
* make one more mount for the 205 from the PTO cover to the xmember for support on that side as well.
* paint everything
* reinstall it all

I've also had a couple of questions about material... Normally I would use either all round or all square, but every piece of this thing is outta my scrap bin, so aside from the $30 I spent on bushings, it's pretty low budget. Had I to do it over again, there are some things I would certainly change...

http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0539.sized.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0542.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0547.sized.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0552.sized.jpg

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by teking on Jun 7, 2006, 7:54am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">well, I got back to it tonight, mounted the 205, played with clocking and determined that I can't get it up as high as I would like (no room for exhaust). Also started looking at the DS clearance down the passenger side and I've pretty much scrapped my original design for the passenger.

Essentially I'll have to do a like an "S" bend to get the mount up over the top of the front D/S.

SOOOO as in all things Jeep I started looking at stuff and decided it was time to replace the body mounts and go with a 1.5" B/L (one thing always leads to another, doesn't it?) for some better clearance.

SOOOO in trying to figure out how to get the body bolts off, I realized that the US Military has the best friggin design for stuff like this out of any Jeep I have EVER worked on, with those access holes inside the cab. BUT the P.O. had used (and I kid you not) tin and TAR to patch up some rust holes on both sides. One thing always leads to another, doesn't it?

SOOOOO now I've got a serious cancer issue to deal with in the floor-pans. I knew they were bad, but this is ridiculous!

Does it EVER get any better? </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

LOL NO!!!! I took my drivers fender off one day to knock some dents out and this is what I found (which then lead to a total restoration):

http://www.tomnlisa.com/files/M715/Truck_rust_1.JPG

The white you see on the inside cab floor well wall is a piece of sheet aluminum that the PO had stuck up there with body caulk to cover the hole.

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on Jun 7, 2006, 9:07am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">
LOL NO!!!! I took my drivers fender off one day to knock some dents out and this is what I found (which then lead to a total restoration)</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Yeah, but I have to say, your sheetmetal work/restoration is most masterful, I always look forward to your posts. I learned a lot from how you did that repair for when I did my firewall patches.

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by robertcowan on Jun 7, 2006, 5:01pm

what about just using a 3/8ths steel plate and fab mounts for all the t-cases and trans mount then mounts to install it to the truck frame ? this would kill both the mount and skid plate with 1 deal.
bob

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on Jun 7, 2006, 8:39pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">what about just using a 3/8ths steel plate and fab mounts for all the t-cases and trans mount then mounts to install it to the truck frame ? this would kill both the mount and skid plate with 1 deal.
bob</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Yep that would do it too, Bob... But for me there are several downsides talking plate vs tube:
1) have you priced plate recently? remember I just had all this laying around.
2) plate would need stiffening ribs, tube won't flex/sag the same way.
3) Not all the mounting surfaces are in the same plane (Xfer's stick out below) so you would have to clearance it. Not as much work as I did, but still a PITA.
4) Weight... This truck is by no means svelt, but I CAN lift the entire x-member myself and install it. No way you could do that with plate (a 4X4' sheet of 3/8 is almost 250 pounds, my entire assembly is approximately 30-40 without the sheet on the bottom).

I'm quite positive there are better ways to do this than what I did, but hopefully I won't be redoing this one myself!!!

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by robertcowan on Jun 8, 2006, 8:18pm

i wasnt knocking your work or engineering i complement you to the max. just thinking outloud. lookin good and you inspired me tremendously. thanks
bob

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by elliott on Jun 11, 2006, 8:21am

Not only looks trick, but you can run your exhaust right through the X-member
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0527.jpg

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by pinball on Jun 11, 2006, 10:15am

I like the looks of it... the concept for sure. I might have to get me a square tube die ....thats pretty sweet. One question.... can you remove the transmission pan while it's all bolted into truck?

Nice work from what I see

NoRM

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on Jun 11, 2006, 12:05pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">i wasnt knocking your work or engineering i complement you to the max. just thinking outloud. lookin good and you inspired me tremendously. thanks
bob</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Oh I didn't take it that way at all Bob!!! I tend to be pretty hard on my work my own-self. I like "simple" on these rigs. "Simple" works, and keeps working, but complicated just lets you down every time at the worst time.

I think this project was only as complicated as it needed to be, but that's still more than I like.

And thank you sir for the kind words!

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on Jun 11, 2006, 12:12pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I like the looks of it... the concept for sure. I might have to get me a square tube die ....thats pretty sweet. One question.... can you remove the transmission pan while it's all bolted into truck?</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Careful there Norm, any place you can keep the angles in a single plane and it's all 45 or 90*, square works well. Once you get into compound angles at odd places, the round stuff is still better (there were a couple of places on this one, around the 205 mount I was wishing for round instead of square).

In answer to your question: no you can't drop the pan with this in place. But there are two factors I considered when making it that way:
1) If you do allow to drop the pan then there is no protection for the tranny.
2) Any flange/removable setup under the tranny would be weaker than a single piece.
3) My tranny has a drain plug in the pan. I know it won't help with replacing the filter, but for basic maintenance, it's better than dropping the whole deal.

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on Jun 18, 2006, 9:36pm

Got everything bolted up this weekend and started in on a couple of other projects. Here are some shots of the finished product. Note: I added another hard-mount on the PTO cover cause I wanted everything supported in the cradle, didn't think the mounting plate on the 205 alone would handle it all.

http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0581.jpg
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...3/DSCF0591.jpg

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by fisherman on Jun 18, 2006, 11:53pm

Looking good, what are you planning to use for an e brake setup? I am right behind you on this. Just finished degreasing my np and will start mocking up a transfer crossmember. I am only using one t case though. I think I've figured out how I will do things just need to decide what to do for the e brake. Fisherman

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on Jun 19, 2006, 8:39am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Looking good, what are you planning to use for an e brake setup? I am right behind you on this. Just finished degreasing my np and will start mocking up a transfer crossmember. I am only using one t case though. I think I've figured out how I will do things just need to decide what to do for the e brake. Fisherman</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I've got a Mico-Lock setup for the rear discs, and I'll use it as an advanced/mechanical line-lock like heavy equipment does. Once I get some things squared away I may change the rear calipers to Caddy Eldorados for the cable actuated e-brake.

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by fisherman on Jun 19, 2006, 9:52am

What does the Mico-Lock setup entail? I have front discs stock axles, rear drums. A seventies duel master cylinder non power chevy master. I will be plumbing my own lines probably like you stated above. Looks to fun,, Fisherman

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by bluesman2a on Jun 19, 2006, 11:47am


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">What does the Mico-Lock setup entail? I have front discs stock axles, rear drums. A seventies duel master cylinder non power chevy master. I will be plumbing my own lines probably like you stated above. Looks to fun,, Fisherman</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

A Mico-lock is what they used on a lot of heavy equipment back in the day. It's essentially a valve that mechanically maintains pressure on the calipers without any electrical input. Some of the cheapo linelocks have solenoids. With those, when you lose electrical, your e-brake cuts out.
Part number 02-640-125 on page 3 from here:
http://www.mico.com/litpdf/80-950-152.pdf


The mico-lock supposes that you also have hydraulic pressure, so it's not a mechanical e-brake, but it's good for parking and the like. As such you have to plumb it in between your MC and the calipers. See pic of the control here in red:
http://www.sjmembers.com/gallery/alb...0433.sized.jpg

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by fisherman on Jun 19, 2006, 6:46pm

Thanks that looks like it may be an easier install than swapping my driveline drum from the 200 over to the 205. Fisherman

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by robertcowan on Jun 19, 2006, 10:28pm

if you want all 4 wheels brakeing and you have a split m/cyl. you need 2 of these.

Re: Doubler X-Member
Post by barrman on Jun 20, 2006, 9:51am

Doug has a lock on his brakes. He used it to full advantage at the FE. If you plan on getting stuck on the side of some hills, put one on.