binfordm715 : HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell

HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on Apr 30, 2006, 2:06pm

My M715 did not have the old distribution box, so my starting point is a little muddled here.

I am installing the solid state harness setup I got from Star Electric. Here are the terminals I have to work with from them:

3-wire screw-in connector to black box mounted on firewall.
22
22/460
22/461
460
461
460/461
79 (short wire ending in a ring terminal)

That's what I have to work with on the new turn signal harness.

Here's where the manual says they go:

D -- 22
E -- 22/460
C -- 22/461
A -- 460
B -- 461
G -- 460/461
79 -- Fuel sending unit chassis ground

Fine, but I am missing several of those lettered terminals! What I have to work with on the truck harness are:

B
E
J
K
L
unlabeled wire going into truck harness (it was fused on the monkey setup I had in there [sorry, X], so it might be A?)

Any ideas, gang?

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on Apr 30, 2006, 6:03pm

Mmmm..k here's what I've done. I hooked them up near as original as I could figure. It is wired like this:

B -- 22
E -- 22/460
L -- 22/461
K -- 460
J -- 461
24V hot lead to 460/461

And here's what happens when I flip switches:

Right turn switch makes both rear lights flash.
Left turn switch makes both front lights flash.
Brakes don't work no matter what.
Parking lights work properly.
Hazard option on this new solid state turn signal switch unit works--all 4 lights flash.

I sure hope this answer is obvious to someone, because it sure isn't to me! I need to take a break from it.

Thanks for any help.....

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by compexp on Apr 30, 2006, 7:05pm

looks like you have brakes plugged into right turn, parks plugged into left turn and nothing tied to the brake lights.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by k8icu on Apr 30, 2006, 7:40pm

Did you hook up that ring terminal to ground? That is your ground wire and is very much needed.
22 is your stop light.
460 is left turn
461 is right turn.
So 22 goes to your stop light circuit.
22/460 is your left turn rear turn signal
22/461 is your right rear turn signal
460 is your front left turn signal
461 is your right front turn signal
460/461 is the trun signal feed.
79 is Ground!

What you need to do my friend is some dective work with a VOM or circuit tester. You need to trace B E J K L to see were each is going. That way you'll find out if B=22 L=79 etc.
Wish I could give you more detail, but if I had the same puzzle as you that is what I would do. This way you will know it's hooked up correctly or as close as possible.

Good luck.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on Apr 30, 2006, 9:07pm

Yes, #79 is connected to a good ground. Forgot to mention that, sorry. I also have a couple wires passing through a circuit breaker from the brake switch. It would work before with the old turn signal switch (though only after I'd signalled a right turn!) I'll investigate more tomorrow. But I think that's an issue separate from the goofy turn signals.

So it looks like I'm somehow getting the 460s and 461s crossed up. Hmmm.....

I drove the M715 up the road with a couple of my neighbors and all our sons, putting a bunch of crushed rock in the bed of the truck to fill potholes along our road. (Developers up our road were "kind" enough to redo our road--no crown ["Sorry, county said we couldn't crown it,"] so pothole filling is becoming quite a past time for us.) Anyway, afterward we hung around, King of the Hill-style, drinking beer. So I'm no good for anything electrical now! And it'll be dark before I am.

And Joe, I really didn't feel like trying to figure out where all those lettered wires go. Not if someone has already worked it out! I'll do it if I have to, of course, but I figured it would be wise to not reinvent the wheel if someone already had it documented.

Put my new 3-lever switch in today too. I don't think there was anything wrong with my original one, but just in case that was part of the problem, I got a new one.

Anyway tomorrow is turn-signals-and-brake-lights-work day! God willing......

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by oilcan on Apr 30, 2006, 11:37pm

It wouldn't be a bad idea to check that the wiring harness is good. I spent hours trying to make mine right until I tested continuity from the cab to the taillights. Turned out that one wire would power 3/4's of the rear harness! That's why my electrical system looks like it's direct from the fire department.
I keep telling myself the mechanical stuff comes first, then wiring, then the body work. Who knows when it'll get done though.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 12:34am

I'd already checked for continuity before I gave up on the stock turn signal switch in favor of the new solid state one.

For me, it's fix the turn signals/brake lights; then rebuild the carburetor; then set the timing (so I delete "turn key off, put vehicle in 2nd gear, let off clutch slowly" from the shut-down procedure!); then I can start on the prep for painting. Once I start driving it regularly, I'm sure I'll find more stuff that needs to be fixed....

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by amphi on May 1, 2006, 8:38am

Tim,

Put it on your new trailer, bring it down here, and we’ll do it all except paint. Could even set the rocker clearances. Half a day ---- max.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 8:41am

I did this page as I did the conversion...I know these wire hokups to be correct:

http://www.m715zone.com/manuals/techpgs/turn_convert/


The wires you need to play with to hook to the new setup are as follows:

The wiring needs to be connected as follows:

ORIGINAL WIRE____NEW HARNESS WIRE_____PURPOSE
A________________460/461______________Power from 3 lever light switch to flasher box & turn signal switch
B________________22___________________Brake light signal from brake light switch
E________________22/460_______________Signal direct to the Right Rear Turn Signal
K________________22/461_______________Signal direct to the Left Rear Turn Signal
J________________460__________________Signal direct to the Right Front Turn Signal
L________________461__________________Signal direct to the Left Front Turn Signal


And of course the ground wire.

NOTE: I havenet had time to actually read all the above, so I may need to make further comments on you, as I remember, cobbled wiring....

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 9:25am

I think that may do it, Brute!

Looks like I have K, J and L mixed up. I'll report back a little later this morning after I bring Nick to school.

Thanks!

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 10:13am

You wrote that you hookedd up with:

B -- 22 (Correct)
E -- 22/460 (Correct)
L -- 22/461 (Wrong, s/b hooked to 461)
K -- 460 (Wrong, s/b hooked to 22/461)
J -- 461 (Wrong, s/b hooked to 460)
24V hot lead to 460/461...if this is the wire that is 24 volt hot directly from the 3 lever light switch and only hot when the top levver is moved to a position of ther than top center, then this is ORIGINAL WIRE A in the above post and s/b hooked to 460/461 as you have listed.

The other wires are not needed anymore as they were wires that connected between the turn signal switch and the DB...those wires are:
B, C, D, E, F, G

REMEMBER that there are, were in your case once upon a time, 2 wires at the DB labeled as B and 2 labeled as E.

One of the B wires and one of the E wires were wires that went directly to the Sparton turn signal switch.

The other B wire should have come directly from the 3 lever light switch to the DB...this is the brake switch signal to light the brake lights. If I remember right you had something added in this circuit...dont need it if you have a stock pressure switch and a stock 3 lever light switch. If you take the cannon plug off of the rear of the 3 lever light switch you should be able to see the letters of the pins on the socket next to their holes. The one for wire B at the DB is pin C at the 3 lever light switch...so if you find continuity between pin C at the 3 lever and a wire at the other end, thats the one that we want connected to wire 22 in your new trn signal setup.

The other E wire should have originally had a ring trminal on it, then, after leaving the DB, would have run into the wire harness and exited the harness again on the drivers inner fender, terminating in a female connector as wire 22/460...that end is already plugged to a rear harness wire where it should remain. If you got the connection harness from Star Electric, there should be a 22/460 wire...the end of this wire E should have the ring terminal cut off, if yours still has it, and a new male end made onto there, then plug that new male end into the new female end on the new connection harness.

Let me know if this helps....

I remember you had some kind of circuit breaker in the system...thanks EL for the ID...I would remove anything but the wirs mentiuoned on the page I linked...the system doesnt need them and it may be preventing things from working right...simpler is better because its complicated enough!!

Hoping this works, though expecting more questions!!

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 12:23pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">You wrote that you hookedd up with:

B -- 22 (Correct)
E -- 22/460 (Correct)
L -- 22/461 (Wrong, s/b hooked to 461)
K -- 460 (Wrong, s/b hooked to 22/461)
J -- 461 (Wrong, s/b hooked to 460)
24V hot lead to 460/461...if this is the wire that is 24 volt hot directly from the 3 lever light switch and only hot when the top levver is moved to a position of ther than top center, then this is ORIGINAL WIRE A in the above post and s/b hooked to 460/461 as you have listed. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Okay. I swapped the three wires around and got the turn signals and hazards working correctly. Thanks!!!

The only deviation from what you wrote, Jon, is the 460/461 feed is always hot, regardless of the top lever position. So the feed is coming from a different location. I'll just leave it alone, since I doubt this thing will be seeing any night time combat anytime soon. If it does, I'll have to remember to pull the plug on the turn signals!

However, my brake lights still don't work. (Detailed below.)


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">REMEMBER that there are, were in your case once upon a time, 2 wires at the DB labeled as B and 2 labeled as E.

One of the B wires and one of the E wires were wires that went directly to the Sparton turn signal switch.

The other B wire should have come directly from the 3 lever light switch to the DB...this is the brake switch signal to light the brake lights. If I remember right you had something added in this circuit...dont need it if you have a stock pressure switch and a stock 3 lever light switch.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Though it isn't labelled "B", I believe I have identified it. The Forest Service pulled it out of the harness just after it came through the firewall and routed it through a circuit breaker, as pictured:

http://img415.imageshack.us/img415/9026/wiring5oq.jpg

Both of those terminals are hot whenever the top switch is set to Stop Light, and not hot otherwise. I figured I'll just leave that as it is, eh? It's not hurting anything, or might it interfere with whatever circuit protection is built in to the 3-lever switch. (I just installed a brand new one, BTW.)

Then there are two wires at the stock pressure switch mounted on the driver's frame below the firewall. Both wires are labelled #75 (no #75A) One is hot (when the top lever is set to Stop Light, so I presume it's the other end of the wire off that circuit breaker) and the other is not. Even when the brake pedal is depressed, I get the same. So I am assuming here that my brake switch is faulty.

There was a NAPA replacement for this, as I recall. Wish I could do a search for it! Anyone know off hand?

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 1:45pm

The power from the 3 lever light switch should act as you described the 2 wires in that last pic as doing..it should not be on full time to either the brake pressure switch, either side, or the turn signal citcuit. To me, having the power to the turn signals live all the time is just inviting a draw to take out your batteres while the truck sits between uses...I would make sure that I had a positive way to turn the system off to prevent a draw.

I agree your brake switch is bad. On the #75 wires....on the truck they are listed as 75...in the manuals, #75A is shown for one of them, though it doesnt say which...

Quick review...the 3 lever switch, when moved to the stop position, energizes the stop light circuit and the turn signal circuit...this is due to internal wiring in the 3 lever switch...so you should have both of those systems energized when you move the top lever to the right 1 notch.

If I read you right, you are saying that the added circuit breaker is between the 3 lever switch and the brake pressure switch...odd that one would be put in there but whatever...if that is where it is, you can remove the circuit breaker and splice the 2 wire ends together.

For reference, the stock brake lights only should have power as follows:

Power in to 3 lever on pin F
Top switch must be in a position other than center
Power flows from 3 lever switch to one side of brake pressure switch--wire 75
Brake pedal is depressed and pressure is in brake system closing pressure switch
Power flows through 2nd wire 75 back to 3 lever switch
Power flows out from Pin C of 3 lever switch to wire terminal B at DB
Power flows from here to the brake lights on wires 22-460 and 22-461


I dont know that I have the pressure switch interchange...I find nothing at present...sorry...


The power to the 460/461 wire should be coming in as described up the page...if it is live all the time as you indicate, then it has to be coming in from one of these places:

1. straight off the battery
2. from the side of the foot starter switch that has the positive wire from the batteries
3. spliced from this wire or one of its end points:

http://www.m715zone.com/jonmisc/primary.jpg

The large ring terminal a little left of center high in the image labeled as "#5 Alternator Output to Battery, Starter Switch End" is the ring terminal on the foot switch...THE source of power to a stock truck other than to the starter itself...so all power should flow in though here...

Note that there is an end from the alternators output that connects to take charge back to the batteries...doubt that is spliced....

Then there is there horn wire...again doubtful...

The #85, Heater and Spotlight wire is a possible as this wire is often just tucked under the dash unused with a male end on it. This wire I found in my truck one day when I stuck my hand up under there to work on something else and found it was live...someone may have tapped this wire for what you have...

The only other wires go to the on/off switch, after which they are regulated by the switch, and to the 3 lever light switch, Pin F, where it woud not be constantly on.

To put it a little different, only the alternator feed back to the batteries, the horn, wire #85, 2 of the wires at the on/off switch and Pin F of the 3 lever are live when the on/off switch is off.

Personally, I woulld figure out how they did it and redo it back to the correct way...if you lived around here, I would do it for you...up for a rooooooooad trip?

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 2:03pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">The power from the 3 lever light switch should act as you described the 2 wires in that last pic as doing..it should not be on full time to either the brake pressure switch, either side, or the turn signal citcuit. To me, having the power to the turn signals live all the time is just inviting a draw to take out your batteres while the truck sits between uses...I would make sure that I had a positive way to turn the system off to prevent a draw.

I agree your brake switch is bad. On the #75 wires....on the truck they are listed as 75...in the manuals, #75A is shown for one of them, though it doesnt say which...

If I read you right, you are saying that the added circuit breaker is between the 3 lever switch and the brake pressure switch...odd that one would be put in there but whatever...if that is where it is, you can remove the circuit breaker and splice the 2 wire ends together.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I thought of that (splicing those two ends together and eliminating the circuit breaker). I could also pull another wire off of that splice to feed the 460/461 wire into the new turn signal switch setup. Then the turn signals would not get power unless I moved the top lever. Or do you think I might be inviting trouble doing that?

I'll try looking for a switch at NAPA. I'll do a Google cache search for what that NAPA part number might be....

Thanks for the help!

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 2:34pm

I tried searching for over a half hour for that switch number...no luck...wish I had it...

On the wires...you should have a wire from Pin B on the 3 lever to go to the brake lights and a wire from Pin J to go to the turn signal circuit to power it. If you didnt see wires cut off the back of the cannon plug when you put the new switch in, then they must be around somewhere....why not use those?

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 2:42pm

I wish you had the part number too! No luck in Google. I think Brandon got one recently.

As for the wires, I didn't see any cut wires, but they all disappear into the loom right off the cannon plug, then some reappear as they pass through the firewall. I really don't feel like pulling that cannon plug back off and trying to find where "J" goes! Not when I can just pull power off that brake wire that I'll splice together.

If I remove that stop switch off the block, will that open up my brake lines? I did a search of every PDF in my computer for "stop switch", figuring that would show it in the manuals I have copied, but nothing turned up. Can I just pull that switch off the block, or is there a trick to it?

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 3:00pm

If you unscrew the brake pressure switch, it does open the line...it screws into a hole in that block just like the lines do...

If you take a tester and get one side hooked into Pin J then, with an extension chunk of wire hooked to the other probe and the box set in the continuity mode, run around on the wires you have out by the flasher unit and see where it is. Can do the same to verify/find the one from Pin C that should be labeled as B.

These military electrical systems are notorious for draws...having yours setup so that the turn signal system is constantly energized is not a good idea. At the very least, put an on/off master cutoff switch at the battery to turn it off positvely when not in use. If you get any kind of break in a wire of the turn signal circuit, remember the wiring is somewhat ccobbled and isnt anywhere near new, and a path to ground occurs, the system may not be circuit breaker protected through the 3 lever light switch so the whole circuit could burn...all the wire anyway at least...and if that bleeds over into other areas, depending on how it is wired....you are gonna look like that other Tim Taylor having one of his "episodes"....and you wouldnt be the first person in this club it happened to either.

If that turn signal circuit is always live, I would definitely change that to provide it and you protection. The logical way to do that is to make use of the on board circuit breaker intended for that purpose...in the 3 lever switch...

I do have some extra metal tags for the wires...I should have any of these you are missing...let me know which ones you need and they are yours...

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 3:18pm


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">If you unscrew the brake pressure switch, it does open the line...it screws into a hole in that block just like the lines do...</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Great.... Seems I'd then have to bleed the entire system afterward, eh? PITA. The brakes work GREAT right now. That's one thing I really didn't want to monkey with (sorry X).


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">If you take a tester and get one side hooked into Pin J then, with an extension chunk of wire hooked to the other probe and the box set in the continuity mode, run around on the wires you have out by the flasher unit and see where it is. Can do the same to verify/find the one from Pin C that should be labeled as B.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

BTW, I haven't mentioned it, but I have no loose wires under the hood. There's the mystery power feed (the always-hot one I currently--pardon the pun--have the TS switch powered by), and one other cut wire that I've determined is for the B/O driving light that is missing on my truck. All the rest were letter-labeled as discussed earlier and all now have happy homes with their mates. So I really don't know what wire I'd test for continuity with the "J" pin.


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">These military electrical systems are notorious for draws...having yours setup so that the turn signal system is constantly energized is not a good idea. At the very least, put an on/off master cutoff switch at the battery to turn it off positvely when not in use.</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Good tip. A battery disconnect wouldn't be a bad idea anyway.


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">If that turn signal circuit is always live, I would definitely change that to provide it and you protection. The logical way to do that is to make use of the on board circuit breaker intended for that purpose...in the 3 lever switch...</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

I could do that if I had a loose wire that could be traced to the "J" pin.


Quote: <TABLE class=bordercolor cellSpacing=1 width="90%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%"><TABLE class=quote cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=2 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">I do have some extra metal tags for the wires...I should have any of these you are missing...let me know which ones you need and they are yours...</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Very kind of you, but with the sole exception of the mysterious hot feed and the cut B/O driving light wire, every other wire is still factory-labeled and accounted for.

I'll look for a potential "J" pin wire in the loom under the dash. Otherwise I'll just pull switched power off that brake line when I splice the two ends in that aftermarket circuit breaker together.

(edited for clarity)

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 3:24pm

Look what I found....searched some J truck boards and found a guy who used this brake switch in a 68 as we use it....I know that the splitter block we use in the brakes is THE SAME as a 66 Wagoneer uses...thats where mine came from as I had to replace it...and the same pressure switch screws into it....

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/xq/asp...qx/product.htm

It sure looks like the right one...

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 3:28pm

Hey! Cool! I didn't even think to ask about cross-compatibility! I'll run over to NAPA and ask for a brake switch for a '66 Wagoneer.

I can just hear it now: "What engine's in it?" Heh, heh, heh....

Thanks, Jon.....

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 3:57pm

Heres another from a place in MO. thats just under $7....
http://haywireinc.com/Merchant2/merchant....ategory_Code=BS

Note it says Ford type??

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 4:02pm

FINALLY!!!!

Found a Ford street rod site that had a part number for it and tried that at Napas site and POOF!!

http://napaonline.com/MasterPages/NOLMas....oplight+Swit ch

Heres the details:

Item#: ECHSL134

Price: $8.49
tax and shipping not included

Disclaimer: The stated price may vary from the in store price and may change at anytime.

Usually ships in 24 hours.


Attributes:
# of Terminals:2 Terminals
Features & Benefits:Hydraulic heavy duty
push-on terminal
closes at 60-120 PSI
Thread Size:1/8" x 27 thread
Type of Packaging:Box

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 4:30pm

While you were busy doing MY stop switch research, I went back out and took a closer look at the wiring. I hadn't noticed before, but I found a cut wire poking out of the harness about where the other TS wires come out. No marking on it, but the test-light shows it's hot only when the top lever is clicked over to the right. So I think I've found our long lost friend, the J-pin wire!

Okay, okay.... I'll confirm it before I hook up to it. Sheesh....

Also, regarding the stop switch, I got it working!!! I did it by resorting to Plan B, the use of a 5/8" wrench. (I used the wrench to give it a few gentle-to-moderate thwacks.) The Tool Man does it again!

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 5:03pm

I found a page out there that shows whats in such a switch...might be a little different on ours but close I would think....specifically, this is a pressure switch like ours that is being used to kick the cruise off...instead of lighting the lights...

http://www.antony-anderson.com/Cruis...on_Switch.html

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 1, 2006, 5:05pm

Looks like you can order the switches from the link below for just under $3!!!

http://www.surpluscenter.com/sort.asp?UI....ic&keyword=AFSP

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by k8icu on May 1, 2006, 9:18pm

Sounds like the forest service didn't want to have someone driving with out break lights cause the were to stupid to flip the switch. So they made the brake circuit always hot like a civilian truck. Get in and drive you have break lights....instead of get in turn to service break light and then drive.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 1, 2006, 11:21pm

Nope. The brake lights were always on the switch! It was the turn signal that was always hot! Go figure....

Nice brake pressure switch tech there, Jon. You see, by gently striking the switch at the 7 o'clock and 4 o'clock positions with the 5/8" wrench (though 9/16" might work in a pinch), what you're doing is allowing the elastomer ring to free up from the steel annulus with that pesky Kapton square.

That brake switch doesn't light up until I'm pushing the brake pedal pretty hard. As I mentioned earlier, I'm one of the lucky ones (the only lucky one, perhaps?) with really good stock brakes, so I usually don't have to push too hard on them to get slowed down. I'll have to keep an eye on that. It will probably self-correct as the shoes wear though.

Didn't get time to confirm that wire was to the J-pin. I wanted to pick Nick up from school in the M715, which I did. Then we got gas and drove it to Ace Hardware to get a stainless bolt, nuts and washers to replace the rusted/gummed-up adjusting screw on the parking brake.

Despite having had this truck for over a year, this was only the 2nd time I'd had it out on the road. What a hoot.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 2, 2006, 8:59am

Nice to hear its getting a few miles on...hopefully the worst of the wiring problems are over!!
If ya need more though....you know where I am!

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 2, 2006, 11:35pm

The denouement.....

I went from this:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/9...gwiring4yd.jpg


To this:
http://img238.imageshack.us/img238/3...dwiring6rg.jpg



As it turns out, I only needed one of the Packard connectors. That was for the J-pin switched power source I call out in the second picture. You can see the cut B/O driving light wire in the first picture. Just cut and left as is. I just taped it up since I'll be splicing more wire to it shortly when I get the light set up.

The old always-hot power source (running through the in-line fuse in the first pic) is now snipped and taped off. Still don't know what that's from. I'll read over what you wrote earlier in this thread, Brute, then ponder that one. It comes right out of the main harness. Go figure....

All splices I made were heat-shrinked, then taped up. The B/O driving light wire will be too, soon. That just leaves that always-hot wire that I'll figure out and deal with. Otherwise, it's set! Turn signals now work only on switched power. I confirmed that stub was indeed the wire to the J-pin, so done deal!

Thanks again for all the help. I'm now in turn signal heaven!

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 3, 2006, 8:38am

That looks much better!! Now if/when you have a problem, its factory wiring and much easier to diagnose from a distance...very nice!!

Since that hot wire is in the harness....I have to wonder, do you have the stock horn wired up? If not, it could be the wire to run to it...and that does run through the harness in that area...

My other choice would be, as mentioned above, wire #85 which normally runs in the harness and to the cab, up under the dash, in the area of the steering column, usually found on the passenger side of the column, but near it. This is always live on a stock truck and does come from the engine compartment to the cab...maybe it was cut on the engine side of the firewall and re-assigned to the use you found it in...

Guesses of course...

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 3, 2006, 7:40pm

Stock horn still works (most of the time, anyway!) and there's a Packard-capped hot wire #85 under the dash too. After reading your mention of it, I thought maybe they'd cut it behind the firewall leaving the under-dash part dead. But it tested hot. Hmmmm.....

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 3, 2006, 9:56pm

If there isnt a wire straight off the bttery, or a non stock wire off the battery side of the foot starter switch, it has to be in this wire somewhere that it is spliced from as this is all that is live BEFORE the on/off switch is switched on:

http://www.m715zone.com/jonmisc/primary.jpg

Maybe they soliced into one of those wires, the horn or #85, and made a "Y" at that point...so the original is still working and the other is there too...maybe....

Maybe they tpped the wires that run to the on/off switch, the 2 #11 wires...

If it were me, cause I am tht way, I would look for it...

As long as it is taped off and secured, its ok though of course...

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 3, 2006, 11:19pm

Maybe someday..... But it's all secure and happy now. I suspect one of these days I'll be tearing deeply into the truck and I'll see about dealing with it then.

Took Nick to his Cub Scout meeting in the M715 tonight. Only two other Scouts at the meeting. Pretty lame pack, actually! We were talking about projects the boys could do. I suggested I could bring a box of 220 grit sandpaper and let the boys go at the M715! Heh, heh, heh.... J/k though.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 4, 2006, 8:20am

Funny...thats one way to get de-yellowed!!

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by thetroublemaster on May 4, 2006, 8:33am

Tim, If you have to press hard on the pedal to activate the pressure switch that means its going bad. I have to replace them on my CJ pretty frequently. It should only take light pressure to close the contacts. Before you install it turn the switch upside down and fill it with brake fluid first. If you have not done all that already.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by brute4c on May 4, 2006, 8:38am

The specs on the switches list 60-120 psi as the activation level...even the stock brake system has many many times that pressure....

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by elwenil on May 9, 2006, 8:34am

Just out of curiosity, what does the whole Solid State turn signal set up run these days? I know Jon posted that it was about $100 from Star Electric in the tutorial, but I assume that was when the page was put up. Saturn has this stuff for about $150, but if I can save $50 I will, but if not I'll order from Saturn along with a few other items I need.

I tried calling Star, but all I get is an answering machine.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by binfordm715 on May 9, 2006, 2:45pm

Including shipping, it was $150 to my door, which included the turn signal switch, the harness with all female Packard connectors and identified wires, and the brain box. That was from Star Electric.

Kevin (at Star) might be traveling. He gave me his cell number, but I don't have it with me. Be patient with him! I had to be. But he came through in the end.

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by elwenil on May 9, 2006, 3:53pm

Oh well, I already ordered it all from Saturn along with the other crap I needed. Along with almost $300 in Autometers from Summit. This d**n truck had better be worth it, lol...

Re: HELP!!! I'm in turn signal hell
Post by k8icu on May 10, 2006, 6:34am

I know Kevin from Star. We use to hang out together at one of the MV show that use to be here in Ohio. I knew him before he became Star Electirc. He's a good guy and a straight shooter. He's a retired Army officer and he might be out on the road traviln to MV shows I know he does alot of them.