Winch rebuild

OK ... I bought an entire winch assembly (winch, cable, brackets, driveline, cabin lever, PTO, bumper,etc. The unit will have to be blasted as it has been painted white. You can see the old OD paint under the white.

My question .... anyone ever rebuilt one of these? How hard is it to change all the seals. How do the bearings hold up. Would I need to worry about the bearings? How would I know (before mounting). Anything else I might need to know?

BTW - In my quest for a winch I ended up aquiring extra PTOs and an extra winch main cross brace. May be up for sale soon.

Not sure if there is a manual out there or not. I'd imagine someone will pipe up soon. If not, take it apart very carefully and make drawings/notes or if you can, take pics and video. Will help immensely when putting it back together.
As far as how things hold up, it's pretty obvious when winch parts are shot. Bearings will be notchy and/or sloppy, there will be wear on contacting parts, etc etc. Basically a big spool w/pivots on the ends, and a motor. Check carefully, think logically at every step and you should be fine.

keep me updated, i have to do mine too!

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Originally Posted by teking

My question .... anyone ever rebuilt one of these? How hard is it to change all the seals. How do the bearings hold up. Would I need to worry about the bearings? How would I know (before mounting). Anything else I might need to know?

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Take a look at this site:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/8274/

It has a great writeup on rebuilding a winch. The one shown happens to be the same one that's on my M, but it might help you to see what's involved.

Stan

If the winch has a big side cover plate that can be unbolted, from experience with the Deuce winches, I'd take that off and visually inspect the gears...especially the worm gear. I got one that got water in it and pitted the worm drive from the water laying under the oil in the drive side. I wouldn't worry about bearings and a quick reseal should be pretty straight forward for the drive.

When I got mine it was in great shape. Just rotate everything and look listen and feel. I bet the winch is fine. They don't turn fast. The PTO unit I had to replace one bearing and reset the clearances. They spin pretty fast.
I called to find out what oil to use and was told 140 wt. Not what I expected since I also have an Warn 8274 and they call for 10 WT oil. Pick up a PTO mounting gasket set. I think the gear backlash was 8 to 12 thousands.

Teking, I'm finishing up the rebuild of my LU-4 Braden winch. Learned a few things in the process. You might download the generic "Braden Worm Gear Winch" service manual. Copy and paste:

http://www.paccarwinch.com/pdf/pb-162.pdf

This is a general manual that covers Braden's many worm gear winches. Paccar Inc is the parent company that absorbed Braden, Carco and Gearmatic winch companies along with names like Kenworth and Peterbuilt. From the company history on their web sight:
In 1955 Braden Winch Company designed and manufactured the Model LU4, a 7,500 pound water tight winch for military vehicles.

Thanks Brut4c! You did a great job with the online manuals. See that winch info here:

http://www.m715zone.com/manuals/34/c...0section2.html

Like Spicergear said, moisture gets into the worm gear housing over time and corrodes and pits the steel worm gear and tapered roller bearings. The oil covers only the lower half of the worm gear and bearings, so its best to operate the winch periodically to lube those parts above the oil that are exposed to the moist air. Draining, flushing and refilling the gear oil should help remove any water that has been sitting in the bottom of the cases For flushing, Braden recommends draining and refilling with kerosene and running for 5 minutes with no load and then draining and refilling with the correct gear oil. In their manual, Braden states that it is normal to see a small amount of fine bronze particles in the drain oil; however large flakes or chips requires winch disassembly for inspection.

Kaiserjeeps is also right on with the oil info. I know that the M715 Lube Order calls for 90wt gear oil but the manufacturer calls for 140 wt gear oil (AGMA Grade 7EP) for ambient temperatures above 40 degree F. Between 10 F and 50 F it calls out 90 wt. There are other grades of oils listed for lower temps. I ended up using an 85w-140 wt gear oil that should cover most conditions I encounter. One quart is all you will need. After draining out the old oil, put a little over half (18 ounces) into the worm gear housing and the rest (14oz) into the clutch housing. There are two small 1/8 inch pipe plugs, one in each housing, that you can remove to check the oil level. I never knew they existed until removing the winch and cleaning off the housings.

The worm shaft brake assembly seems to be a source of problems. Mine had a mixture of water, oil and rust inside. The front worm shaft seal had leaked oil and the previous mechanic had installed the cover with the brake band holes facing up, thus catching rain water. By design, the brake housing does not get a gasket, so it should be installed with the brake band holes at the lower point which will help drain out water Guys, the brake band can also be installed backwards. The Braden service manual has a good picture of the correct installation on page 32. It’s allows the worm shaft to turn freely for winching “in” but provides worm shaft braking if winching “out“. Normally you would disengage the winch clutch to spool out the cable, not power the winch out.

The design of the worm gears provide the majority of winch holding ability. The gear ratio is about 29 to 1.

On a safety related note, I also learned that the clutch lugs (dogs) have a “negative draft angle” cut into their faces to prevent disengagement under load. Instead of the faces of the lugs being cut at 90 degrees, they are undercut slightly to load the sliding clutch in towards the drum during winching. The manual explains how to check this “negative draft angle” without disassembling the winch. This is good info to read on page 10 to tell if the dogs are worn out. Mine were shot requiring a sliding clutch replacement and reworking the clutch dogs on the cable drum. This damage is caused by attempting to engage the drum clutch while the winch is running or disengaging the clutch with a load applied to the winch cable.

Most of the original seals had a felt wiper built in to them. Since these are no longer available, make sure that the replacement seals are “double lipped” to help keep out water and crud.

I got my winch parts from AB Linn and Vintage Power Wagons

AB Linn’s email (no web site): ablinn@salisbury.net

Vintage Power Wagons web site:
http://www.vintagepowerwagons.com/pr...nch/lu4-p1.htm

Hope this info is helpful, Robert-CA (aka Hiker)

OK.. Help. What is the secret to removing the clutch and worm gear keys ffrom the cable shaft?

Try loosening the keys by tapping them with a brass drift on their sides and ends. Grab close to one end of the key with a Vice Grip and beat the head of the vice grip with a hammer in the direction to lift the key out of its slot. May have to alternate this process between ends of the key. Good luck, Robert-CA

Thanks Robert! I was beating the hell outta them yesterday to no avail. I'll try again. I was using a vise-grip and a hammer but the vise grip just kept popping off. I'm sure the oil wasn't helping! ;-)

Teking, How's the winch rebuild going?

... in me off actually. I was able to pound the broken pin out of the worm gear shaft. Cool won't need to buy a new worm gear shaft! Got all the seals from VPW. All the bearings are good.

Now the bad news. So far I have only been able to remove ONE of the clutch keys on the drum shaft. This means I can't remove the drum until I figure out how to get the second one out. Nothing seems to work.

Teking, some suggestions:

1. You might try a little propane heat on the shaft and then an ice cube or dry ice on the key to thermal shock the key to loosen it. Repeat a couple of times. It’s amazing what the dry ice will do by itself.

2. You might have to sacrifice the key by under cutting/grinding notches on the sides to get a better grip with the vice grips or cold chisel. VPW has replacement keys I see. A slide hammer with vice grips on the end is handy. Maybe available at a tool rental place or auto parts store.

3. If you have access to a welder then weld something to the key that you can grab onto to remove. Then after the key is out, grind off the attached item and possibly reuse the key.

4. Try to grab the key in vice and tap the shaft with a brass hammer.

Maybe others will give you a workable idea. Keep at it.

Robert-CA