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Is it possible to have custom axle shafts made for the stock M-715 front end? Say, for instance, special alloy, cr-mo or cryo'd... And then maybe use a u-joint like a CTM or something similar... If so, has anyone done this? Aside from price, what other problems are there with this idea? If it is possible, it sure would change people's poor opinion of the stock front end. Whadyathink?
We've been round this before. For the cost of upgrading to a mega-buck CTM and Cryo jobbie you could install a later model open knuckle 60, put alloys and a posi in that...AND have disk brakes. Our front 60's get kind of a bad wrap as it's a LOT more difficult to put 40" gummies on any other truck where we can slap in some pucks and be rolling. No stock axle is gonna be all that long for this world, even a late model 60, with big gums and big right feet...um, foot. Oh, and U-joint strength doesn't seem to be a problem.
MMTH: yes, but why bother? You'll still snap the ears off the knuckle. Remember the weak link theory: there always is one, you decide what. Upgrade your shafts and the u-joints blow. Upgrade the ujoints and the knuckle gets it. My new 60 will likely have the u-joints as the fuse as they are the cheapest to replace.
Rockwells!
Simple enough right?
Either that or Portals :)
Tacoma, as on your new dana 60, wouldn't it be better to upgrade the shafts and have the u-joint be the weak link? Just curious...
Here we go again. You guys that want to have a weak link need to explain something to me. Keep in mind that I am VERY narrow minded. If you were going to go bungy jumping, what would the weak link be ??? Or how about if you were going to build an airplane, a helicopter, or a submarine ??? What if you were working on the space shuttle ?? See what I am getting at. Weak links are nothing other than an excuse that it wasn't built right the first time. M1028
I agree with barry. Also keep in mind when your weak link fuse blows, nine times outa ten it will knock the ears of the shafts, even high dollar shafts. When it blows youll most likely be hard on the gas.
Steve
Barry,
You, Sir, are absolutely correct and I hereby bestow upon you the Honorary Title of Modified Forum Maven!!
I think that some people seem to downgrade bullet proof to bullet resistant to slows down how fast you get splattered without realizing the consequences....when you are out in the middle of somewhere other than civilization and the weak link goes, it will most likely never happen on flat, even, smooth, hard ground to facilitate the repair...mud up to your eyebrows and you need to change a u-joint....good luck buddy...we'll warm up some water in a 55 gallon drum on the camp stove so you can wash up when ya get back...
brute4c
Hammer's right on with the portals or the rockwells, and either one of those would be the ticket.
who wants to build a bomb and wait for it to blow up. overkill is the only way to go. :) build it stronger than you ever plan to abuse it so it wont grenade.
now ive got to find a 715 to put some under it cause the old 725 is a little top heavy
Thank you Brute ! I am truely honored with such a title. M1028
I have to agree with Barry.
I know my thinking of building something bullet proof is that the only possible 'weak link' might be the size of my cahones on that particular day.
Hammer and Dave , The new mud truck that I'm building right now is being built with Hammer's cahone's factor in mind. After doing all the math , guess what is going to be the weakest link ? The Rockwell axle shafts !! I just can't wait to have the bragging rights at the mud pit when I twist one of them off. But that will only happen once. They make upgraded axles for the deuce rears. They are just very $$$$$ ! Like I said before , " It ain't no fun being broke " . M1028
Yeah, the upgrade shafts for the rockwells are insane. In both price and strength.
Of course when you figure in the age and use on almost any rockwell setup we will see, I think the shafts have taken their fair share of abuse.
As for being broke, yeah, that is the only reason I don't have a sweet set of portals under my truck right now.
I figure I will get rockwells long before I can afford the portals. Even after disc brakes and detriotst they are cheaper.
Of course cable locking portals with disc brakes is about the ultimate setup!
And when you twist one of those shafts, TAKE PICTURES!
Then do like I do, and add it to my 'Wall of Shame' among all the other parts I have broken.
Hammer, I have a pair of steering ZF portal axles that I got after I had the rockwells all fabbed up. If I have too much trouble with the Rockwells , the ZF's might just get put to use. M1028
Hammer, I meant to say ZF planetary's, NOT portals. M1028
Barry: ordinarily I agree with you. But lets consider this fact: Rocks eat parts. Something will break, it's not a matter of if. Given that, what should it be? I'm thinking the cheapest part! But just so you don't lose faith: I'm seriously, seriously considering CTM joints, alloy shafts, Crane knuckles, and some kind of hub conversion so I can blow cheap 1/2t junkyard lockouts instead of $180 60 lockouts. In that case of course, the lockouts would be the fuse.
I've learned the expensive way that rocks are hungry and chew on things whenever they can. I'd rather it was the cheapest part possible. The rest should be as bulletproof as possible. So whatchoo think bout that philosophy, American? heheh.
Ok, I think if you MUST keep thinking you need a 'fuse' other then the amount of courage, then pick something a bit more sensable. Like U joints on you drive shafts! It's easy to make a drive shaft loop that will keep things where they should be if/when they break. Think about monster trucks for a moment. Tons of horsepower, being applied in mass amount while coming down HARD with the wheel spinning. And usually the drive shaft/Ujoint is what lets go. Of course other things let go when you fly that high and hit that hard. But we are not doing THAT!
I refuse to make a weak link in my system. To me, that isn't a system, rather a hodge podge of parts that were not carefull planned out, but rather thrown together due to time, money, or lack of knowledge.
Obviously I lack serious money. But I will not build something to break either.
Well I don't know alot about rocks, But I don't think that a 6000+ Lb truck could ever be much of a rock climber. I do know a little about mud. Something that most rock guys avoid like the plague for some reason. I know for a fact that a 42" tire that is completely buried in thick mud will need more torque to turn it than any rock could ever need. You see it's a traction thing. The amount of stress that can be put on the driveline is limited by the traction that the tires will produce. I personally wouldn't run hubs if I thought they would break . I would swap them out for solid drive pucks , It only takes 5 minutes at the most. You use the word fuse correctly, that is something that sets off a bomb. I use the break it three times and then it's time to upgrade philosophy . NO EXCUSES ! M1028 PS I think the rock guys are actually afraid of breaking parts in the mud. And then there is the bumper to bumper pulls on the blacktop that we do too . Let's have that event in the FE parking lot. I bet we get thrown out !!!
LOL Barry you kill me. The axles I'm getting from you are going on the M-Cherokee I'm building: ie the Rockpig. When it's done, it's coming to the bog w/me. I like mud, I grew up in NY LOL... Oh yeah, our local computer nut features a pull-off between his Hummer and his partner's built XJ-- the pavement tow-off is well known here! I'd be up for that: th400 v. th475 maybe? could be interesting!
Hammer: good thinking on the driveshaft. I can't tell you how easy it is to snap one out here: just tap a rock under power, say, slipping off a rock LOL.. and POW off it goes. THere are limits to how much beefing you can really do. I'm getting thick-ass driveshaft tubes, but they cost horsepower, and there's only so tough you can make the pinion yoke too. Of course, then I could get Volvo axles but then I'd have to trailer the thing, and that's no fun.
Some u-joint somewhere will be the "weak" link, and note the quotations. I mean relative to anything else, and maybe nothing at all will break. Maybe I'll keep my careful driving style even w/a purpose-built, paid for rig. I did manage to dent the XJ a little but that's mostly a clearance issue heheh. Those factory mufflers hold up pretty good! and the rest is plastic so you can't really tell. Anyway.
How does Bill Loomis' M-725 (pictured at www.m715.com) axles, shafts and u-joints hold up to a caddy motor AND 44" Boggers?
Hammer, look me up when you get to the disc side of you're Rockwells. I'm working on that now and think I'll be able to do a bit better than the typical $1000-1100 for the disc kits.
Concerning Bill, well, I think you can run almost any combination for a while before something happens.
He never told me if he has broken a lot of part or not either. Driving style has to be taken into account when you talk about parts breakage. I have a '74 CJ5 with 16/35" Boggers, and my stroker AMC 401 motor. I have broken a lot of parts (especially rear axle stuff). But I have NEVER had one single issue with the puny dana 30 in front. Go figure. And I am not light on the go pedal (wonder where I get my nickname from?).
Spicer, hmm, what are you talking about for discs on them? Those huge drums are one the major drawbacks for me because they are nasty, and immediately limit my rim/tire choices. Take them off and you can run almost any rim/tire combo you want as clearing that hub is easy.
Yep, that's what I'm working on at the moment. Still trying to lesson the cost of the rotor. I'm working on one side at the moment for a steer axle and will have the rotor back tomorrow. Oh, presently 'hubs out' is what I'm working on. I've got an idea for a 'hubs in' brake but won't get to that for some time. Once I finish this Rockwell design I plan to see what I can do for a stock 715 axle. I've already found the main part and just need time to work on it. It's ALLLLLL good! I'll keep you posted!
Oh, I'm hoping that with a 16.5" wheel I can get around 6-7" backspacing.
Those 44"x 66" Goodyears for those ZF's are expensive, huh Barry? :)
Actually for discs I think I will go with pinion brakes. Very simple, and you only need a small rotor when you factor in the gearing.
That and the caliper adaptor is EASY. Simple flat metal.
Spicer, I have a friend that has 7 of those 44 X 66 tires. He said that I can use them anytime I want to. It's the wheels that are going to kill me unless I build my own. M1028
Hammer, for off road/beater...pinion is the ONLY way to go! Mine will see plenty of street driving and I wanted to have at least the front with discs at the wheels. It's looking like I'll come in several hundred dollars under a usa6x6 or chuck's trucks price. I do have a lot of time invested to get here, so the *NEXT* possible set would come much easier. I've got a different axle to do next. I think it will be popular. :)
Barry, would you even fit in the mud pit? You may want to take a glance at the Boyce web site as I remember them having wheels for those big gummies.
Spicer. In good ol' Pa. you must have a service brake at each wheel for State Inspection. That eliminates pinion brakes for street use in Pa. I'm running pinion brakes on my newest project, But as you well know, that is strictly off-road. The only problem with pinion brakes occurs when you are not running a locker or welded rear. Under a hard braking situation, if one wheel is on a hard surface while the other wheel is on a slippery surface. If you are hard on the brake , and one wheel has alot less braking traction then the other one, the differential will then take over and let the wheel with the least traction turn backwards. While this is a very unlikely situation, it can happen. M1028
Yup, I know about the differential thing. I do plan to weld the rear and detroit the front. Today sucks, I just saw that USA6x6 has a recently released 1 ton kit that is VERY affordable priced. The 2 and 2.5 ton kits, and the one I'd been working on were, are, and would end up being twice the other kits cost. I think I'll cut my losses here, which would actually even out had I bought a big kit and move to other aspects of the project.