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is anyone using lift springs on their trucks in a spring under configuration? i've contacted a company called alcan spring in colorado they can build them any way you want..... cost est. at 180 a spring i'm looking at this option for the front for two reasons a better riding spring and not having to mess with the steering arms.... thinking 5inch lift in front and then a shackle swap in the rear any thoughts or opinions would be very appreciated
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I want some too, maybe 2-3" lift though. Deaver can make them locally, Nat'l as well but I think they're closer to 300 per spring.
Chris
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here's a question: why not use Cherokee lift springs? I'm going to have to check, as JP did something with them, maybe it's a bad idea. FSJ's are spring under of course, and BJ's Offroad is selling 6" kits for I think $500, that's all 4 springs if memory serves. I'll have to read the article again, but I think there was some problem w/the MSprings being the same arc as lift springs or something? Will repost tomorrow.
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m725 on another site
Springs like that will have a huge arch to them. That means spring wrap to anybody that actually uses their truck. Plus, anything that hangs below the axle is just something that should be eliminated . Both of these problems should be avoided at all costs in my book. But then again , anybody can bolt a set of springs on and drive down the HIGHWAY . M1028
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Tacoma, I think they said the springs are the same as early FSJ but mounted lower in relation to the frame to get the lift. Apparently early FSJ springs aren't that common though.
Barry, the way I understand it if you take the same spring and compare spring over to spring under, the spring over will have much more wrap. So you could use a conservative arch lift and still not increase wrap compared to a spring over. But if you need the huge lift a spring over is the way to go.
Chris
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I think Chris is right in the wrap debate I have no spring wrap problem in my v8 cj with 35in tires the concern of the spring under the axle is minimal if using a flat type retainer that keeps all hardware above the axle itsself.the springs hang less than the front pumkin. hiway running is the least of my concerns my truck sees mostly off-road conditions. M1028 sounds like you're pretty narrow-minded to any ideas that aren't what you think is best...........how is your truck set up any pictures?
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Chris, I agree with you on the same spring issue. But that is not what was being talked about. You guys were talking about lift springs that go under the axle. M715 stock spring are VERY stiff and I doubt that you could get much, if any spring wrap out of them. After market lift springs wiold never be as stiff as stock ones , add the arch , and you will get spring wrap.
Jeeperguy, your CJ in no way can be compared to a 6500 lb truck when it comes to spring requirements ! You bet I'm narrowed minded. As for pictures, there are plenty of pictures of the trucks that I build already posted. M1028
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I never knew that smiley arches cause wrap, I thought it just kept the springs from flexing as well as a flatter spring would.
What I gather is this, assuming you're swapping to softer springs since the stockers are rediculous for a recreation truck -
You need to determine at what point will increased arch create more spring wrap than a spring over swap. Either way, I'd prefer longer springs but that takes more work than just swapping in lift springs.
I do agree with you Barry that a SOA on stock springs won't have much wrap. But in comparison my F100 had severe wrap on the rear with all things stock and it was spring over.
Chris
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Spring over will in fact have more wrap than spring UNDER, all other things being the same. Barry's right in that I am pretty sure FSJ lift springs aren't anywhere near the spring rate of our stockers. Springover gives the axle much more leverage, but so does a softer spring rate. As far as things hanging down, well, out here in the rocks I'm kind of split on that. Part of me likes wacking a nice Ubolt plate instead of an axletube, but then again, maybe nothing would hit if the spring was on top. The big Cherokee project will be a spring over, so we'll see I guess. Spring overs have the advantage more than anything of keeping the spring flatter, less arch-- which equals more flex both ways. Ideally I'd rig something to use big Chevy or Ford springs, they're pretty flat -- but you'd have to have the right chassis to put them on.
Back to topic, I'd say fab up a new mount for the rear of the spring and use newer FSJ lift springs. Ain't nothin' easy on these things.
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This sucks! All I want is a few inches of lift and squishy springs. Why can't it be super simple?
Chris
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it is: get some FSJ springs and modify the spring mounts. Solved! You can thank me later hahahaha
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Just for a note of comparison, 4" lift springs for a FSJ are the same arch as the stock M715 springs. And the fact that they are softer means you will not get the same amount of lift from them. So to possibly gain 1.5" of lift, you could swap to the 6" lift springs for FSJ's. But you either need to change your spring mounts, or wait a while until the newer 6" version comes out for the older FSJ trucks (same mounts).
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what type of spring mount mods are you guys talking about?switching to another spot on the frame,lowering or widening the mounts????? has anyone attempted a shackle reversal?that would help ride and steering a touch??
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Hey jeeperguy, I'd answer you but the last time you told me that I was narrowed minded ! My truck is set up that way already, but then again what do I know. M1028
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not much, you ignorant American redneck: all your trucks are broken, right? hahahaha
anyway. I forgot to look at the mounts last time: what did you do to the fronts? I'm going to have to take more pictures next time.
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As far as I can tell, the 715 doesn't share the exact same front spring mounting configuration as any of the other Jeeps. All of the early Jeep trucks, including the 715, had the "post mount" type springs, but that's where the similarity ended. The Wagoneers were spring under, like the 715, but the springs were much closer together. The J-trucks were spring over. BJ's Offroad is currently developing some lift springs for the early post mount Wagoneers, but I doubt they'd do us much good. In the future, they may develop some for the early J-truck, but who knows if they will come any closer to the 715 stuff. I doubt it. The lift kits currently available for the later FSJ's have a completely different mount. Any way you go, you're most likely looking at custom spring mounts for any off-the-shelf spring.
If you can get custom springs for $180 ea, that sounds like a deal. Like tacoma says, the increased arch won't flex as good as a flatter spring, but the stock springs are so stiff they don't flex at all, so you may actually come out ahead!
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thanks for the input I think I'll giv'em a try and see what happens.......Love that wrecker that's about as rare of a jeep there is do you know production #'s on that old dog?
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the wrecker variants were made from the factory cab/chassis.... fairly rare, but not a factory option.
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Wow! are you guys married or what?
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I've glance through this a couple of times and hope I didn't miss it, but why not pull a couple leaves from the stock pack, then spring over it? Several guys have already posted in the past about the much enhanced flexibility of the suspension with a couple leaves removed and then the spring over would gain you the few inches you want. ?
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Springover with 2 leaves out in the rear, 1 in the front, gives about 5 1/2 inches lift.
Some dont want to do a springover as it will raise them more than they want...center of gravity issues...others just dont want to take on the complexity of it...others want the ability to return to stock...
Probably others, these are off the top of my head.
brute4c
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with the spring-over what are the options with the steering arms? I don't want to heat and bend them,what have you guys done on this aspect?what about the pitman arm for that much lift any aftermarket stuff fit?
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from cincy?
On the steering arms, having the ends welded shut and recut from the top with a tapered ream instead of from the bottom like stock is the way to go. Once the taper is there, drill the rest of the straight hole and you got it...I have heard of people just running the tapered ream from the top but for me I would take up the slack of the bottoms bevel with solid weld material.
Pittman arm, this is from the old yahoo board...
QUESTION:
What pittman arm does one use with a springover?
ANSWER:
If your trying to find out what type of dropped pitman arm to use on your Saginaw power steering conversion? Use the dropped pitman arm available out of any 4x4 magazine for a 1980-1988 Ford Bronco. This pitman arm splines onto the Saginaw box and the 715 tierod end is the same diameter as the Bronco's.
Good luck,
brute4c