robertcowan : any 6bt cummins in a m715

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by robertcowan on Jun 5, 2006, 10:23am

SO YOU,ALL agree a turbo doesnt blow max boost until you load it. correct. if i say red some will say blue shucks lets all just argue. if you want to cut your truck cut it i dont and wont.if you like air to air do it , i like a after cooler myself. you guys are lucky to have a dodge diesel i,ve had a dozen semis running 100,0000 miles a year each. so where do we stand on diesel knoledge. i run cummins engines only and have always done my own work as i do for about a dozen truckers now. whos gonna mention in very cold weather air to air is harmful ? and an aftercooler is benificial even more ? i,am done with this. i sure wish i,d learn and just keep stuff to myself. think i will.... see why tom isnt here now also. bob

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by binfordm715 on Jun 5, 2006, 10:41am

I rather enjoy the free exchange of opinions, Bob. Yours most definitely included. I learn a great deal from it and thank you for it. No need to get in a tizzy over differing opinions!

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by amphi on Jun 5, 2006, 10:57am

Don't go away Bob -- this is interesting stuff.

By the way are you aware of the "Killer Pin"? This is a must retrofit.

This happened on mine --- luckily it didn't go thru the gears it <S>is</S> simply shot out and broke the case. A few hour of labor and some JB weld --- back in business.

http://dodgeram.org/tech/dsl/Dowel_Pin/tab.htm

http://thepowershop.com/index.php?pr=Killer_Dowel

Gary

Edit: <S>is</S>

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by tacomainoh on Jun 5, 2006, 11:02am

all the air to air coolers was designed for the common rail very hi-hp 6btaa,s not the manuel fuel pump models mostly used in m/v trucks.

a diesel only gets hot when worked hard, thats when you get boost off the turbo.

INCORRECT AND MISLEADING

and that's all, if you want to freak out about it, feel free! Everything is variable anyway, aftercooler helps but not nearly as much as an intercooler, otherwise Cummins would not have spent the time and money designing one for light duty trucks, they would have just used the aftercooler they already had. SHEESH

eh, whatever.

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by elwenil on Jun 5, 2006, 11:19am

And for the record, I have driven quite a few road tractors myself and the only one I know of that had an aftercooler was an early 90s model Pete cabover. I think it had a Detroit in it. The Cummins in the FLD 120 Freight-ticker I trained on had a FMIC (Front Mounted Intercooler). The KW T600 I drove the most had a 425 Cat with a FMIC. Hell, d**n near every one I've seen has had one. And yeah a turbo is almost constantly boosting, even if only a little. The turbo whine means that the impeller has gone to supersonic speeds, but you can imagine how much it has to spin before it gets that far. If more turbo diesels had intake blow off valves (BOVs) then you would realize how much pressure the intake has even when the engine is not loaded. My SRT is almost annoying because of the burst of air coming out of the BOV at each shift or release of the throttle. And that's all the time, not just when I'm running it hard. It sounds louder than a truck releasing it's air brakes.

And BTW, I'm not arguing, we're all friends here. This is a discussion and I am just clarifying things on a few points to head of any misconceptions in the future.

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by barrman on Jun 5, 2006, 12:15pm

Bob,
The 4BT powered truck that was in your shop when I was there did not have an aftercooler. The customer complained about a lack of power. You mentioned that an aftercooler would really help. You were right. Would a front mounted intercooler be better? Yes, but it won't fit in the truck. I think the original owner of that truck was actually told by Cummins that it wouldn't even run down the road without some kind of air to air cooler installed. He didn't put one on and it ran for him but not anybody else.

It seems that you are talking about stuff that will fit on a stock bodied M715 and others are talking about '07 vehicles. Big difference in size and money.

I for one was not trying to argue with you. I was just injecting in a non biased way what little tech I actually know about turbo diesels into the thread.

Now, about your original question that started this thread. A 6BT has been put into stock framed M715's before. Body lifts were needed. Somebody posted a link a year or so ago of a Japanese licensed copy of the 6Bt that is shorter and fits better. I can't find it, but this same basic discussion resulted with the same basic comments. If you want to stuff a 6BT into a M715. Do it! Will it run with a 2006 Dodge? No, but it will do better that a 4Bt and be unique.

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by brute4c on Jun 5, 2006, 12:46pm

I remember seeing a bunch of posts from Utahjeeper on the old M715 Zone board...the one that is archived in the Online Manuals, about his 6bt swap....for those who are interested in this swap and what info we have on the subject, please look into that archive...use your search feature and search on 6bt or utahjeeper....heres a link to the 10.2 meg file:

http://www.m715zone.com/vb/pages/man...ctory/open.pdf

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by elwenil on Jun 5, 2006, 1:21pm

Tim, I agree with what you are saying, my observations on the 6BT are sort of colored by the ones found in 89-07 Rams. I do remember the original CTD Rams did NOT have a FMIC and they did ok, but when the intercooled version came out, they became much more powerful and as a result, more popular. I guess it basically boils down to this: A diesel is cool, a turbo diesel is better, an aftercooled turbo diesel is even better, and a FMIC air to air turbo diesel is the ultimate, and today, pretty much the norm. I think most of us (myself included) brush off the idea of the aftercooler since it is much less efficient and makes less power. For me, the entire purpose in swapping in a 6BT would be for the amount of power it can generate. It's certainly not for the fuel mileage. To me, if someone wanted a turbo diesel, but not all the power, why not just swap in the 4BT which seems to be a better fit? But as always, it's up to the owner of the truck how much modification is acceptable to meet his or her needs.

To me, the 6BT is fun to think about, but totally overkill. I mean seriously, who in their right mind would consider a M715 to be towing a big 5th wheel trailer around all the time? And isn't that why Dodge and other manufacturers put the bigger diesel engines in their trucks? It certainly isn't for putting around town, even though I see an awful lot of that. To me the 4BT fits better and is better suited to the vehicle, but that's just my opinion.

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by brute4c on Jun 5, 2006, 1:28pm

I'd have to live somewhere that such a diesel would be practical year round before I would consider one...imagine not having run one for a month and its -30 out and now I NEED it to start....

Re: any 6bt cummins in a m715
Post by robertcowan on Jun 5, 2006, 2:18pm

i think your refering to lee,s alessi,s truck right ? i pulled the valve covers and run the overhead, all the valves were .012 to .020 too much out of adjustment so i corrected this and the power level was greatly increased. then i removed the anti-tampering cap on the fuel pump and adjusted the fuel pressure to 10% over stock. now the truck will cruse at 80 mph in overdrive ! it just needed a little attention. i,ve got 6- 4bta,s in the shop you seen and i,am completely impressed by there power, fuel milage, long life and speed . i just ran across this 6 bt and thought i,d see if it would fit without cutting the truck. dont sell the 4bt,s short there more peppy than a 350 chevy and will pull far more. and they,ll do great in all weather , they got 22 to 1 compression without boost !