Well looks like they mounted the alt in the wrong place and I will have to get under the hood to shift gears.
Printable View
Well looks like they mounted the alt in the wrong place and I will have to get under the hood to shift gears.
Not to mention those little dolly wheels are going to make for a really stiff, wobbly ride.....Quote:
Originally Posted by sermis
look great
They aren't wrong. Those are just some modifications we made without telling you about.
Your air cleaner is going to be hard to fit as well. I am serious about this:
[IMG]http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/6...ckupairpu4.jpg[/IMG]
We can "make" it fit under the hood. By cutting the housing away, shortening the hose and stuffing it next to the radiator about the same area it is in right now. But, if you see any 5 ton air cleaners sitting around, with the brackets. You might want to look at them and consider how one would look mounted on on top of the hood. Either that or think about a smaller cleaner element.
If we put in a civi heater how much room will be in front of it, under it, around it? Enough to get the air cleaner in?
I was also thinking of the small 24v M151 style self contained heater under the dash. That would free up that fire wall. Any idea which would be better?
PM me your shipping address so I can send you parts.
Tim - Sermis,
What about the hood mounted (stock) 715 air cleaner? Haven't gotten that far yet, but I have new one to install for my 4BT. Looks like it can be moved to the side some for additional clearance. 3" intake and output... not sure about the 6BT requirements.
Snuffy
I think the civilian heater is going to be out. Here is the room between the turbo and the firewall:
[IMG]http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/939...tofirewzb2.jpg[/IMG]
Here is a shot with the hood hinge in it so you can get a reference:
[IMG]http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3...tofirewik7.jpg[/IMG]
The exhaust has to come out the firewall side of the turbo. That part will work. No room for a heater though.
The air filter will work out without buying anything.
If you flip the exhaust manifold upside down, it will move your turbo out of the way of the heater box.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
If that's not sufficient, you can shift the heater box away from the engine about 1-1.5" (which I have done in my J300). Keep us updated!
http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/6...c03177b1wz.jpg
http://img416.imageshack.us/img416/8...c03178b2ww.jpg
I have a couple killer air cleaners I picked up from Hammons. Send me a PM and remind me to post up pics. Do you know how to find out the required cfm of the motor, or how to figure how much a filter would flow?
Hey Gimp!
http://www.4secondsflat.com/Carb_CFM_Calculator.html
Great thread Tim B. !!!
Thanks Chris.
Using the link, 5.9L engine with a 3200 redline and 83% I get abut 333 CFM. Not really all that much. However, when you figure in the turbo, the way Sermis drives (Like he stole it) and our climate. I think the biggest filter that can be mounted and the hood still close is what we need.
I have to check, but I think it has THAT filter in your pic. What is the length and width of it? I have a housing and 4 or 5 filter elements.
unique metal products makes a real slick canister air filter assembly. ones available with plenty of filter for that engine. they are nice, and very pretty, with a cost to go along with it.
Ryan
Tim
Think this monster auto tranny will fit in the truck?
I got to looking at it and it has a PTO port on the side so I could still have the PTO winch and no more shifting gears. I think it is 28 1/2" from bell to the back of the E-brake drum.
http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/3184/dsc00185ez4.jpg
I don't see a mount for the transmission behind the mid mount at the back of the engine. How much room down do you figure there is from the mount to where the pto shaft would run? That would be the biggest problem besides stuffing a trans cooler infront of the radiator.
It has 4 tabs on top that I guess are mounting points? 1 on each corner.
The engine motor mounts are high enough to clear the PTO.
The PTO port is close to the pan on the passenger side of the tranny.
Not sure if it has overdrive or not.
We finally just got the front axle centered left to right and front to back. Plus, got the Castor set at 8 degrees. It took us 3 days to get all the measurements to be right at the same time, but the drivers side spring perches are now tacked in place. We now get to take the axle back off again to grind the old mount a previous axle owner made that was close, but not at the correct castor to the correct angle and down about 1/8 of an inch. Then build perches for that side too.
We should get the grinding done tomorrow since the students working on it are only here for about 2 hours a day. Then, I have jury duty Monday morning and if I can get out of that, we have a teacher training/conference all next week and Monday of the next week. That will slow things down for about a week.
Keep posting pic there Tim.... :)
Sermis...what is that trans out of a school bus? What is the ratio of the gears and how many gears, 3, 4, 5?
I ask because if it is only a three speed you may only at best have a 1:1 at the finial or if it's a 4 or 5 speed then you may get a good low first and I .89:1 or something in the last gear.
Isn't 8 degrees a bit too much caster for such large tires?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
Tranny is an Allison AT545NRM Part# 29537831 out of a Freight liner linen truck. The shifter is marked D1, D3, and D. I think is has some type of of overdrive but not sure on the ratio. I am thinking with the 4.56 and large tires, unknown size right now but at least 12.5 / 20' (40") or 14.5 / 20's (43"), I might not need overdrive.
with 8 degrees i would be completely happy with it. when i set up steering axles i try to shoot for 7 degrees. 6 is acceptable, but i would want more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikel
with my axle swap and shackle reversal/suspension redesign i ended up with 10 degrees of caster. i will likely drive it that way for a while and see if it bothers me. if so i will add a 3 degree shim to it and be at 7. i may just add the shim before its driving too.
ryan
I just used the specs for a mid 1980's K30. 7.5-8.5 degrees is what the factory says it should be at. The axle as the perches were set up was at 3.9. The previous owner of the axles got rid of them because it wouldn't go down the road right. The difference between 8.0 and 7.0 is very small. The difference between 8 and 4 is more than I want to shim.
The camera I use at work is owned by the State. I am the only person here who actually can make it load pictures to a computer, so I get to keep it normally. It is out being used to document a welding project this week. Maybe some more pictures in a few weeks.
A question about the calculator...Quote:
Originally Posted by sermis
How does it account for specific engines? 4, 6, or 8 cylinder engines will turn at different RPM with those same input calculations, will they not? Or is this calc specific to the 6BT and I missed that somewhere?
RPM is RPM 2,500rpm with a 4, 6, or 8 is 2,500rpm. Now the horse power of the 4,6,8 might not be the same and a 4 might not have the power to turn 43" tires where the 8 will turn them just fine.
Ok, I see in the calculator description that they use a small block v-8 as the default... I also understand that RPM=RPM... But maybe I'm missing something here... With equal final drive ratios, different engines will turn at different speeds, will they not? Regardless of horsepower, a 4-cylinder engine will turn a higher RPM than a 6, and a 6 will turn higher than an 8, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by sermis
I'm not trying to be argumentative, so please don't take it that way. I'm beginning a 6bt swap project myself on an M1008, and I'm just trying to understand the concept, and how I can account for the difference in engines... Thanks...
Maybe Tim or someone can explain better than me.
Motor RPM will be the same on all motors, ie 2,500 is 2,500 RPM
Think of a drill press. Change the belts to a different size pulley and the chuck turns faster or slower. The motor is still turning the same speed.
Gear raito, transmission ratio, transfer case ratio, tire size will all effect the final motor RPM. Over drive will lower the motor RPM, larger tires will also lower the motor RPM, lower gears will, increse motor RPM at the same speed.
axle tire speed tranny
4.56 40 65 1 = 2490 rpm
4.56 40 65 .70= 1743 rpm
5.89 40 65 1 = 3216 rpm
5.89 40 65 .70 = 2251 rpm
The motor still has to turn the same RPM weather 4,6,8 to get to the same speed. The gears, tire size, overdrive will change how many RPM's the motor turnes to reach that speed. Now the hores power the motor has will effect weather or not the motor can reach the rpm needed to get to the speed.
This part I get. This is general rule type stuff... Changing final drive ratio whether done by changing ring and pinion, changing tire size, adding OD, or a combo of all of the above will always effect engine RPM. This part is clear as a bell...Quote:
Originally Posted by sermis
This is the where I get confused. Let's apply this to three different vehicles, all with the same driveline from trans to tires. If we assume 4.56 gear ratio, a .73 overdrive final drive trans, and 38" tires, one truck has a 4BT, one with a 6BT, and one with a 6.5 detroit. Wouldn't all 3 engines have different RPM at the 65MPH? Since the calculator uses a small block Chev gasser as it's base example, if I'm I'm correct, what math do we use in conjunction with that calculator to account for the differenmce in engines? If I'm not correct, maybe some more experts can chime in to explain it to my dumb ass, because I'm :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by sermis
Sermis explained it pretty good. My big Block turns 2000 rpm at 54 mph. I could pull that engine out and put in anything else. If all I did was change the engine, it would still be 2000 rpm at 54 mph. I really doubt a 4 or probably not even a V6 could generate enough umph to get that fast however.
That might be what has you confused. The smaller something is, the more it has to work to do the same job compared to something big. The way to get more work out of a smaller engine is to have it turn faster.
The only vehicle I can think of that came with a 4, a 6 and a V8 was the Chevy II back in the 1960's. (Maybe the Mustang in the 1980's) The V8 car had different rear axle gears to it was around 2000 rpm at 60 mph. The I-6 engine needed different gears in the rear axle so it could run 60. The rpm was around 2500. The old "Iron Duke" I4 needed to spin faster to hold the same road speed. The rear axle ratio was changed to allow it the engine to turn around 3000 rpm at 60 mph.
That make sense? Car companies and modifiers will change gears ratios around to better fit a different engine in a car. Or, the mission of the vehicle.
For your M1008 swap you really won't have to worry. You have 4.56 axles in the truck and a TH400 transmission. The 6.2 has a red line around 3000 rpm. The Cummins going in has about the same red line. You will just get there faster with the Cummins and stay near it on hills.
Ok, I see what you're saying now... It just wasn't clicking, (sorry sermis)... Thanks for the help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
For my build, I'm changing trans too... I'm going with a Destroked-built Allison 1000 6 speed and stand alone controller to give it better highway manners... The Cummins I'm going with is an altogether remanufactured unit too, so I'm really starting from scratch...
That said, after the 1008 build is complete, my next project WILL be an M715. I haven't decided whether to go with a 4bt or 6bt yet, but that project is far enough off that I don't have to think about it yet... I'm going to make that one my daily driver...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanroo
8 degrees is not unreasonable, just seems to be at the high end of what is normally used. I have about 4.5-5 in the Dana 60 in my J300 and it tracks and self centers very nicely on the road.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FLASHMAN
Engine RPM's are determined by speed, tire size and gear ratios. Nothing else. You can put a Yugo engine, or a Cadillac V16 in your M715, that it will turn at the same RPMs if those variables are kept the same :)
You will want to optimize gearing to run the engine at the RPM range that it is most efficient in.
Gas engine and diesel engines rpm range is vastly different one to the other.
Gas engines do vary some...like say a 230 that has trouble doing 5000 rpms and a properly built 289 with its short stroke and lots of oil flow work turning 9000 or better.
Diesels too...some big diesels stop under 2000 rpms while others go to over 4000.
Just trying to find a reason they chose that particular engine...
As Mikel said...if you keep all the other variables the same after the motor, then the motor will have to turn X number of rpms to get to a given speed...the question then is, will the selected engine achieve that RPM for long periods safely.
We got the front end spring perches tached on Friday. We also put the cab on the frame. Or rather, the cab is sitting on the frame. Students are working on it as I type, so I can't take a picture. The front axle is off again so we can weld all the perches up real good and paint everything again.
I have only been around 1 or 2 spring over trucks in the past and forgot how tall they are. The top of the door is right at my eye level. That is with 32" tall tires. This thing is going to be a tall truck when it is done.
that is tall. but with big tires it will be cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
mine is spring over and i would say its only an inch or two taller than a stock truck if that. it is on a 31ish inch tire right now.
Ryan
I was figuring on doing a springover on the stock axles and 38's. I didn't think it would put the door up that high. I better get my tape measure out and recheck before I do it!
How tall are you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrman
I am 6'1", and when I had 44" tires on my M715 with SOA, the door handle was pretty much shoulder height to me. I would stick my hand straight out and grab the handle.
Why SOA for only 38" tires? Most of them fit ok stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by randyscycle
39.5's look like stock tires on a spring over truck...roughly...
I will measure it once we get the axle back on and sitting on the tires again.
The top of the door is 60". The tires are 32" tall. Here is how the truck looked yesterday afternoon:
[IMG]http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/1815/img0524f.jpg[/IMG]
We had a change of engines over the last week. Sermis got ahold of a 1997 6BT that has an SAE #3 bell with an Allison auto. The Allison is not an OD. However, he had a 3053A OD from a M35 that will bolt right up. The '97 also has bell housing motor mounts. Here is the '97 with the 5 speed bolted to it:
[IMG]http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/8868/img0523.jpg[/IMG]
Notice the very wide bellhousing with with the mounts? Here is how far it would go on the truck:
[IMG]http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/6484/img0529.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img158.imageshack.us/img158/2315/img0530.jpg[/IMG]
A 6-8" body lift would be needed to clear everything. Or, the throttle pedal could be move about a foot toward the drivers seat.
My students just pulled it back out, verified that the Getrag really is an OD 5 speed. It is, seems really deep too like around .68 or so by twisting the shafts and counting the turns and are now putting the 1992 6bt in the truck. Pictures will follow.