Cargo canvas size wanted to know.

Well, in the frigid 10 degree back garage, I assembled and installed the cargo top frame.

What I measured was the overall 'hump' of the top. I measured from the bottom of the bed lip on the side, that is where it appears to end on all the photos of trucks I saw on this site. The measurement is 142 inches.

The measurement end-to-end of the cargo seat frame is 91 inches long.

What I don't know yet is how much the canvas top wraps around the ends. Guesstimating it looks like 6 inches on each end.

I got my canvas end flaps from Saturn Surplus yesterday. Boy do those look awesome for $22.50 each. Comes with rope, too.

Now, the end pieces must attach to the top frame indepently of the cover. It looks like you must weave the rope in and out of the holes in the end canvas and around the frame.

I'm open to suggestions on securing this to the frame. The photos on this site don't show detail on this, however one truck showed that they tied it in only a couple places with shorter rope pieces.

The cargo cover itself appears to have a rope sleeve in each end, and a rope is fed thru the length of the cover and it is tied down to the hooks on the end of the cargo box/tailgate, and 4 side tie points each. So it looks like there are only four grommets on each side.

[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...5cargotop2.jpg[/IMG]

I'm using this image from this site, I hope its ok, only to illustrate my point.

The image from the -34p manual shows a series of grommets in the top to match the grommets of the end curtains. I believe this is wrong.

We're getting closer. Chime in here, folks. Need the measurements of the end wrap around, and spacing of side grommets.

Scott

OK, here's what I came up with.

Bed side length (not including front rib or rear tailgate) 92 1/2 round up to 93.

Wrap around 8 inches each end. (I looked at a few more photos, 6 inches didn't seem like enough)

Total overall length 109 inches.

Height from bottom of box upper side rib over the top to bottom of other upper side rib 143 inches (actual 142, I added 1 inch more)

That's the easy part. Grommet spacing now:

[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...argotop2-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...rgotopm715.jpg[/IMG]

Notice how the third grommet from the front, the grommet is located about 4 inches in front of the tie down. And the rearmost grommet is about two inches forward of the tie down. (notice on the vintage photo, the rear tie rope is not in the correct spot, it is tied down to where the tools mount).

The first two grommets are directly above the hooks.

This is what I came up with, pardon the crudeness.

[IMG]http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...shtail/IMG.jpg[/IMG]

So this is the sample I will have made. Grommets to fit a 3/8 inch rope, and the ends of the canvas will have the rope hole all the way thru like a hooded sweatshirt (thanks, Ken).

18 ounce treated material, OD green. I have the cargo frame assembled on the truck, when I receive the top, I'll fit it and see what it looks like.

Wish me luck.........

Scott

WOW, very nice! My fingers are crossed for the first prototype! You mentioned treated material. What is it treated for? Waterproof? Is there supposed to be anything on the inside roof to tie it down to the bows? Great job there Scott!!
Ken

The canvas is mil-spec 18 oz water-resistant and mildew-resistant material, same as original.

In regards to fastening, the top is fastened down by the 4 side grommets and the long end internal loops. Nothing ties it to the bows.

I'm still guessing how the end curtains tie to the bows. If it wasn't so darn cold out there, I'd try it today.

Scott

Fishtail, that's my cargo cover you found a picture of (the non-vintage one!) It is not on the vehicle right now; it's folded up in the garage. Tomorrow I could lay it out and take whatever measurements you wish. Pics too if they would help.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...rgotopm715.jpg
http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/o...shtail/IMG.jpg

So this is the sample I will have made. Grommets to fit a 3/8 inch rope, and the ends of the canvas will have the rope hole all the way thru like a hooded sweatshirt (thanks, Ken).

18 ounce treated material, OD green. I have the cargo frame assembled on the truck, when I receive the top, I'll fit it and see what it looks like.

Wish me luck.........

Scott

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Hey, Scott:

Sorry I didn't get to this earlier. I unfolded the cargo cover pictured above and here is what I came up with:

The entire canvas, complete with grommets, ropes, etc., weighs in at exactly 26 pounds, according to my digital luggage scale. I'm not sure what the fabric weight is for this canvas, but let's try to figure it out:

26#/11.37 sq. yds. = 2.28# per yard or about 36oz.

Of course that includes the grommets, rope, hems, whatever nasty waterproofing they coat on the thing, etc. Don't get too light a material or it will flap itself to pieces as you drive down the road. This stuff doesn't flap!

The canvas is 110" long (front of truck to back of truck), so it was very close to your estimated 109".

It is 134" wide (from one side, up and over the top and down to the other side).

(Note that the canvas was laid on a cold concrete floor in an unheated garage with snow on the ground outside. It had been sitting for several months folded into a 2 ft. square for storage and opened up and laid out just before the measurements were taken, so the actual dimensions might be a skootch more. I did make a good effort to pull it tight, so it won't be more than an inch or so.)

There is a 1-1/2" seam joining two halves of the canvas to make this whole cover. It runs at about the halfway point up the side. That is, it splits the canopy front and rear. You can see the seam on the picture of my truck above running straight up directly above the tire pressure label on the stake pocket above the rear wheel, running up and over along the center rib.

There is also a 2-inch hem running the entire perimeter. On the ends this hem forms a pocket, as you noted, for the end ropes to run through. All four corners have a gusset sewn over them for reinforcement, as seen in the picture below.

The first grommet, measuring from one end along one side, is 16-1/2" from the edge of the canvas. The next grommet is 26" from the first, center to center. (13" later is the middle of the center seam, by the way.) From the 2nd grommet to the next is 27 inches. The 4th and last grommet is 24-3/4" from the third. From the last grommet to the other edge is 16".

Funny, but I took the same measurements on the other side and came up with this: 15-1/2", 26", 28-1/2", 25" & 16-1/4". So obviously a bit of inconsistency is plenty acceptable! No surprise!

The ropes (roughly 1/2" diameter) are jute or hemp or whatever, soaked in some sort of petroleum preservative. The loose ends of the rope running through the pockets at each end stick out 5 feet per side (or 134" + 120" = 254" long rope per end).

Each tie-down rope finished length is 30" long. Each is looped through the grommet and the bitter end attached to the working end by a metal ferrule. This picture shows one of the corners, with the end rope coming out of the end of the pocket and the tie-down rope on the first grommet.

http://i408.photobucket.com/albums/p...110_173723.jpg


Hope that helps you!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

In regards to fastening, the top is fastened down by the 4 side grommets and the long end internal loops. Nothing ties it to the bows.

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That's correct. There are tie points on the front of the bed and on the tailgate for those end internal loop-ropes. They cinch the ends of the canopy around the bows and prevent it from sliding much at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

I'm still guessing how the end curtains tie to the bows. If it wasn't so darn cold out there, I'd try it today.

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I unthreaded the rope from the end piece and had it only running through the grommet at the middle top. I then wrapped one end of the rope around the front bow and then ran it through the next grommet. Then another wrap around the bow and through the 3rd grommet, and so on. Then the same going the other way with the other end of the rope. Bottom of the end piece on the OUTSIDE of the bed! (I didn't do that the first time!) :oops:

The back end piece can be looped similarly, but only over the top of the bow and through only the upper grommets. Then a single wrap or so along the side and pick up one of the lower grommets, then tied off. This way the line can be untied and released from the side and the back curtain slid across the top bow like a curtain for access to the back. One of the vets in my local MV club said that's how they used to do it. There should be no shortage of vets here on the Zone who could confirm or correct this....

The length I'll change to the 110 inches instead of 109.

The width there is quite a bit difference. Both Ken and I measured our cargo frames and he got 141 1/2 and I got 142. Yours measures 134. According to the photos, the canvas goes near the bottom of the side lip. 9 inches difference roughly is alot. We'll have to work on that one yet.

The weight I got off New Life website, and seems to be the heaviest available.

Quote from their website: "Standard, original style cab tops are made of 18oz./square yard canvas with the correct milspec water and mildew resistant finish. " unquote.

Notice that it says that for the cab top, but not the cargo top. Are the two tops the same weight?

The material I'll be using states it is extra heavy duty, 18 oz, treated, water and mildew resistant, 100% cotton duck canvas, OD color.

The rope in the 34p manual states 'rope, sisal, 3 strand 3/8 diameter, 288 inches long. (side ties are same but 34 inches long)

McMaster Carr has sisal rope 3/8 diameter in stock.

The detail photo shows the stitching and corner detail with internal rope. I'll pass that one along.

Grommets I'll go at 16-26-26-26-16, that splits pretty closely all what we came up with.

So, if we can figure out the width of the top and weight, we'll be ok then.

Getting closer.
Scott

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

The width there is quite a bit difference. Both Ken and I measured our cargo frames and he got 141 1/2 and I got 142. Yours measures 134. According to the photos, the canvas goes near the bottom of the side lip. 9 inches difference roughly is alot. We'll have to work on that one yet.

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You were measuring your cargo frames. I measured the cover itself. The very one in that picture of my truck in the driveway.

I'll measure it again for you in the morning to confirm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

The weight I got off New Life website, and seems to be the heaviest available.

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As I mentioned, the weight of my cover included the dye, waterproofing, ropes, stitching, etc. I just gave it to you as a reference.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

Notice that it says that for the cab top, but not the cargo top. Are the two tops the same weight?

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I've never really examined a surplus cab top. I have the New Life top (in fact, the M715 model on their website is mine) and it feels close to the same. If that's the fabric weight they use for the cab, I'm sure it will serve well for the cargo cover.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

The rope in the 34p manual states 'rope, sisal, 3 strand 3/8 diameter, 288 inches long. (side ties are same but 34 inches long)

McMaster Carr has sisal rope 3/8 diameter in stock.

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I just guessed the 1/2". I'm sure your 3/8" is correct. The 34" is probably the entire length of the ropes. Mine measure 30", not counting the loop through the grommet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

So, if we can figure out the width of the top and weight, we'll be ok then.

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I'm sure your fabric weight is fine. I'll double-check the width measurement for you in the morning and post up again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fishtail

Getting closer.

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Closer? Dude, you're there. Actual measurements taken of a cover you've seen fit properly in pictures? Doesn't get much better than that!

Cheers....

Confirmed at 134-1/2" wide. :dunno: